911R PTS
05-05-2016, 03:09 PM
#91
I believe the intent of the "confidential" nature of the document is not so much that they don't want it seen but that they don't want it released as an "official" public document. There is a big difference to the lawyers and if they don't restrict it's use it opens them up. If anyone tries to force the issue they want to be able tell them to cram it.
I still think they should release a smaller selection of classic/historic extra cost paint options which are normally available.
I still think they should release a smaller selection of classic/historic extra cost paint options which are normally available.
05-05-2016, 03:20 PM
#92
05-05-2016, 05:06 PM
#93
Their intent...
I believe the intent of the "confidential" nature of the document is not
so much that they don't want it seen but that they don't want it released
as an "official" public document. There is a big difference to the lawyers
and if they don't restrict it's use it opens them up. If anyone tries to force
the issue they want to be able tell them to cram it.
so much that they don't want it seen but that they don't want it released
as an "official" public document. There is a big difference to the lawyers
and if they don't restrict it's use it opens them up. If anyone tries to force
the issue they want to be able tell them to cram it.
personnel have distanced themselves from this new policy ("We are not
PTS & we don't control it. Sorry!"). But they are NOT willing to go
the extra step to say:
'Go ahead & share the PTS information you have received on these lists
with others! The 'Warning' about 'Confidentiality' is just a legal disclaimer,
so don't worry!'. That is NOT what they are saying!
And you can be assured I have brought the subject up a number of times
at private conversations with these PAG/PCNA officials. And none have
given me the slightest hint that its OK to proceed in the normal 'open'
information sharing era as we operated here on Rennlist pre July 2015.
And some dealers that previously were open to sharing the approved
list with us here at Rennlist now shy away from doing so. Technically,
any P-dealer should be able to share that approved PTS list with any
prospective Porsche customer. But in reality, that list is being kept close
to the vest at most Porsche dealerships. So I am not too sure that
your assumption that they (Porsche) 'not so much that they
don't want it seen' is valid...but that it's just my gut feeling!
My friend Daniel (LessThan3mph) has an interesting theory as to
why Porsche has instituted this policy. He recently wrote to me
that:
"I've gotten the impression that PTS has turned into
something completely different from a standard option."
I hope he will post the complete version of what he wrote to me
on the subject. But I leave it up to him to reveal those personal
thoughts on our forum.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
05-05-2016, 05:39 PM
#94
Not surprising that no one will comment on the list's use. No one is going to put their head in the noose and it seems no one is pushing this up the chain of command until it hits someone who can make a decision.
They look at PTS as a special option only available when it fits their production schedule (not necessarily a bad thing). I believe it is also intended to help sell more normal cars like Turbo S's. Unfortunately I think many people are like me and want punchy colors on GT cars not regular one.
I was a bit upset that I missed the PTS window however after seeing how many PTS RS's they have done (well over 10%) it looks to me like they are at least trying to satisfy customers.
They look at PTS as a special option only available when it fits their production schedule (not necessarily a bad thing). I believe it is also intended to help sell more normal cars like Turbo S's. Unfortunately I think many people are like me and want punchy colors on GT cars not regular one.
I was a bit upset that I missed the PTS window however after seeing how many PTS RS's they have done (well over 10%) it looks to me like they are at least trying to satisfy customers.
05-05-2016, 05:43 PM
#95
Drifting
I think PTS is a great selling point when you spend this kind of money I think its reasonable to want something unique, Ferrari doesnt have this problem, i think most of their cars are red. for Porsche and Porsche Exclusive i think unique hues are important, I am also truly shocked that Porsche would paint any car outside of the factory, I presume the plastic parts are painted elsewhere, but how can a 3rd party produce the quality that the Zuffenhausen paint shop can?
05-05-2016, 06:24 PM
#97
Didn't they just spend tons of money on a new environmental friendly state of the art paint shop a few years or so ago? I find it hard to believe they would be out-sourcing....
05-05-2016, 06:42 PM
#98
Where ever they are painted, I can assure you that my 2013 981B was flawless. I removed the covering material and did not let the Dealer do ANY detailing. The car was simply flawless.
As to PTS and Porsche Exclusive, well my two experiences were both wanting.
-Richard
As to PTS and Porsche Exclusive, well my two experiences were both wanting.
-Richard
05-06-2016, 02:19 AM
#99
My friend Daniel (LessThan3mph) has an interesting theory as to
why Porsche has instituted this policy. He recently wrote to me
that:
"I've gotten the impression that PTS has turned into
something completely different from a standard option."
I hope he will post the complete version of what he wrote to me
on the subject. But I leave it up to him to reveal those personal
thoughts on our forum.
why Porsche has instituted this policy. He recently wrote to me
that:
"I've gotten the impression that PTS has turned into
something completely different from a standard option."
I hope he will post the complete version of what he wrote to me
on the subject. But I leave it up to him to reveal those personal
thoughts on our forum.
I've gotten the impression that PTS has turned into something completely different from a standard option. It seems more and more like PAG is using PTS to reward VIP customers and dealerships. The way they've conducted PTS for the R was the pinnacle of this practice. (It was entirely cloaked in secrecy: PTS allocations were not randomly handed out, but were offered only to those with exceedingly high VIP status but without any clarity other than to those who were in the know.) Same with how they've made the list confidential. And how they don't announce windows.
It's almost as if PTS is so popular and it's value beyond the list price (massive impact on resale value, wow factor, prestige, rarity, historic connection, etc), that PAG is now using that to their advantage by making it a way to create a pecking order. It's basically a way to give some customers preference and special treatment above and beyond the allocation of the car itself.
I think in order to maintain and benefit from this practice, PAG has likely made a decision to keep PTS shrouded in mystery. This secrecy allows them to set the rules and creates a greater value for PTS. I'm not sure they currently want all of the information about PTS made public. And I suspect that is why you haven't yet been able to make the trip to speak with them about PTS. I'm getting the feeling it's basically what they want.
The truth is, we all (on RL) have benefited from information that has put us in a position to take advantage of something when ordering our cars (knowledge of options, what's desirable, what colours are significant, what is the likely importance or rarity of a new model, etc). Like you, I've tried to be open about information that I've obtained. However, I have also been entrusted with info that I've kept confidential. I suspect the latter is the way PAG wants PTS to operate. Like a grey market for information to those they want to inform.
While I think it would be great if you could get an interview, I suspect all the info that PAG is willing to share has already been shared with you. So tbh I'm doubtful they'll offer up much more if and when you do meet with them.
I've just been getting that feeling more and more as I think about things.
It's almost as if PTS is so popular and it's value beyond the list price (massive impact on resale value, wow factor, prestige, rarity, historic connection, etc), that PAG is now using that to their advantage by making it a way to create a pecking order. It's basically a way to give some customers preference and special treatment above and beyond the allocation of the car itself.
I think in order to maintain and benefit from this practice, PAG has likely made a decision to keep PTS shrouded in mystery. This secrecy allows them to set the rules and creates a greater value for PTS. I'm not sure they currently want all of the information about PTS made public. And I suspect that is why you haven't yet been able to make the trip to speak with them about PTS. I'm getting the feeling it's basically what they want.
The truth is, we all (on RL) have benefited from information that has put us in a position to take advantage of something when ordering our cars (knowledge of options, what's desirable, what colours are significant, what is the likely importance or rarity of a new model, etc). Like you, I've tried to be open about information that I've obtained. However, I have also been entrusted with info that I've kept confidential. I suspect the latter is the way PAG wants PTS to operate. Like a grey market for information to those they want to inform.
While I think it would be great if you could get an interview, I suspect all the info that PAG is willing to share has already been shared with you. So tbh I'm doubtful they'll offer up much more if and when you do meet with them.
I've just been getting that feeling more and more as I think about things.
And it is really irking many customers when PTS is unachievable. As today's "PTS Confidential" poll seems to indicate, there is very strong (90% or more) support from some of Porsche's most loyal, knowledgeable, and passionate enthusiasts (yes, RLer's, take a bow) to make the PTS approved colour list public. I hope this little bit of info will help emphasize that point with PAG.
Thanks again, Eduardo, for all your help and info about PTS. I benefitted a lot from it, and I hope others will be able to continue to do so in the future. PAG, LISTEN TO EDUARDO, AND PLEASE GIVE HIM THE CHANCE TO SPEAK TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVES CANDIDLY ABOUT THE PTS PROGRAM!
05-06-2016, 08:19 AM
#100
Mind Boggling: PAG, pick 20 colors from the PTS list, charge $10,000 as an option. Done. Want a super special color? $15,000
Ferrari charges $12,500 for OUT OF RANGE COLOR (PAG PTS) paint colors and $26,500 for true PTS (if you want your car to match your sofa).
Porsche should use this terminology as well
Ferrari charges $12,500 for OUT OF RANGE COLOR (PAG PTS) paint colors and $26,500 for true PTS (if you want your car to match your sofa).
Porsche should use this terminology as well
05-06-2016, 08:20 AM
#101
Mind Boggling: PAG, pick 20 colors from the PTS list, charge $10,000 as an option. Done. Want a super special color? $15,000 Ferrari charges $12,500 for OUT OF RANGE COLOR (PAG PTS) paint colors and $26,500 for true PTS (if you want your car to match your sofa). Porsche should use this terminology as well
05-06-2016, 09:39 AM
#102
Mind Boggling: PAG, pick 20 colors from the PTS list, charge $10,000 as an option. Done. Want a super special color? $15,000
Ferrari charges $12,500 for OUT OF RANGE COLOR (PAG PTS) paint colors and $26,500 for true PTS (if you want your car to match your sofa).
Porsche should use this terminology as well
Ferrari charges $12,500 for OUT OF RANGE COLOR (PAG PTS) paint colors and $26,500 for true PTS (if you want your car to match your sofa).
Porsche should use this terminology as well
05-06-2016, 10:04 AM
#103
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This is the last RS for me if I can't get PTS on the next. Prices are up too much and wait times too long to not get what I want.
05-06-2016, 07:35 PM
#104
I had no idea, with them popping up everywhere. I assumed it was a no brainer option if you asked.
05-06-2016, 08:03 PM
#105
Rennlist Member
