BMC Filters, extended warranties and other ramblings...
03-28-2016, 09:14 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
BMC Filters, extended warranties and other ramblings...
It was nice weather today, so that meant GT3 drive! I took the girls (wife and mistress...aka GT3) out to see if the new BMC filters had an impact, and I decided to stop in at the local Porsche dealer to talk to service.
First, the BMC filters. My butt dyno tells me this car was batsh!t crazy fast, even at altitude, with the paper filters, and those same cheeks tell me this car is still batsh!t crazy fast with the BMC's. So...no real change IMO, but it is hard to measure HP precisely while your eyeballs are rolling back in your skull from the G's.
On the way back I stopped by the dealership and talked to service. I wanted to introduce myself, and let them know I will be bringing it to them for service. I also asked them if they could share their thoughts regarding extended warranties from EasyCare or CNA. I figured since they weren't selling me anything, I might get some honest feedback.
Before I even got the names out they started shaking their heads "no". Their feeling was that the odds of those providing true peace of mind are not so good. For any big claims, they are going to most likely fight the claims. In fact, there was one such situation going on with a customer right now.
They also mentioned that the Porsche warranty or CPO are far more comprehensive, and much less likely to be challenged. This isn't an official opinion of any dealer, but rather some people chin-wagging by the water cooler.
The other thing to consider is the scenario where an extended warranty will actually pay off. First, something bad has to go wrong between the time the car goes out of warranty from Porsche, but happens within that 2 year period after. Second, that issue needs to be something that is actually part of your extended warranty coverage. Third, in many cases there will be expenses related to that repair which will not be covered. So you may still get stuck for a big bill regardless. And lastly, that expensive repair that occurs within that 24 month window, and has to be a covered item, and has to exceed the cost of the warranty in question. Bottom line: a lot of things have to line up before you come out ahead on a 3rd party extended warranty. This doesn't include the fact you are paying in advance, and have some risk the company goes BK.
Also consider that any expensive repair is going to provide ample incentive for the warranty company to find a reason to deny the claim. Aftermarket exhaust? BMC filters? If it comes down to paying $40k for a blown motor vs. using the excuse those mods invalidated the warranty, you know which way they are going. But even if you do have a bonafide item go bad, and it is covered, the expense to get to that part may not be covered. Tons of wiggle room for these extended warranty companies when it comes to actually paying claims.
None of this is to say that a Porsche CPO warranty is a bad deal, because it isn't. But the warranties from EasyCare, CNA, etc. are not the same thing. That doesn't mean they won't come through if something does go wrong, because I am sure there are cases where they have. But I am not sure the peace of mind they are selling is real or not.
One more interesting thing. They said that they have been hearing for the last year or so that Porsche is coming out with their own extended warranty program. This would be something you could buy from Porsche directly, and would be a separate animal from CPO. The advice I was given was to drive it like you stole it, and check in annually when you bring the car in for service to see if it is available.
Just relaying a conversation I had with some people who are on the front lines, and can see how things really work. This isn't to say that EasyCare or CNA are bad or deceptive companies. But I think you need to go into those things with your eyes wide open, and read every single line. For smaller claims you probably have no worries. But did you really get that warranty for the small stuff?
I would really like to hear experiences from people who bought a 3rd party warranty from these companies, and had them pay off for something really big, or had a big claim rejected. Personally, I would love to be convinced to get one, as CPO just isn't an option for me, and I really plan on being buried in this car. I just don't want to blow $5k and still not sleep well at night. I would rather spend it on a roll cage!
First, the BMC filters. My butt dyno tells me this car was batsh!t crazy fast, even at altitude, with the paper filters, and those same cheeks tell me this car is still batsh!t crazy fast with the BMC's. So...no real change IMO, but it is hard to measure HP precisely while your eyeballs are rolling back in your skull from the G's.
On the way back I stopped by the dealership and talked to service. I wanted to introduce myself, and let them know I will be bringing it to them for service. I also asked them if they could share their thoughts regarding extended warranties from EasyCare or CNA. I figured since they weren't selling me anything, I might get some honest feedback.
Before I even got the names out they started shaking their heads "no". Their feeling was that the odds of those providing true peace of mind are not so good. For any big claims, they are going to most likely fight the claims. In fact, there was one such situation going on with a customer right now.
They also mentioned that the Porsche warranty or CPO are far more comprehensive, and much less likely to be challenged. This isn't an official opinion of any dealer, but rather some people chin-wagging by the water cooler.
The other thing to consider is the scenario where an extended warranty will actually pay off. First, something bad has to go wrong between the time the car goes out of warranty from Porsche, but happens within that 2 year period after. Second, that issue needs to be something that is actually part of your extended warranty coverage. Third, in many cases there will be expenses related to that repair which will not be covered. So you may still get stuck for a big bill regardless. And lastly, that expensive repair that occurs within that 24 month window, and has to be a covered item, and has to exceed the cost of the warranty in question. Bottom line: a lot of things have to line up before you come out ahead on a 3rd party extended warranty. This doesn't include the fact you are paying in advance, and have some risk the company goes BK.
Also consider that any expensive repair is going to provide ample incentive for the warranty company to find a reason to deny the claim. Aftermarket exhaust? BMC filters? If it comes down to paying $40k for a blown motor vs. using the excuse those mods invalidated the warranty, you know which way they are going. But even if you do have a bonafide item go bad, and it is covered, the expense to get to that part may not be covered. Tons of wiggle room for these extended warranty companies when it comes to actually paying claims.
None of this is to say that a Porsche CPO warranty is a bad deal, because it isn't. But the warranties from EasyCare, CNA, etc. are not the same thing. That doesn't mean they won't come through if something does go wrong, because I am sure there are cases where they have. But I am not sure the peace of mind they are selling is real or not.
One more interesting thing. They said that they have been hearing for the last year or so that Porsche is coming out with their own extended warranty program. This would be something you could buy from Porsche directly, and would be a separate animal from CPO. The advice I was given was to drive it like you stole it, and check in annually when you bring the car in for service to see if it is available.
Just relaying a conversation I had with some people who are on the front lines, and can see how things really work. This isn't to say that EasyCare or CNA are bad or deceptive companies. But I think you need to go into those things with your eyes wide open, and read every single line. For smaller claims you probably have no worries. But did you really get that warranty for the small stuff?
I would really like to hear experiences from people who bought a 3rd party warranty from these companies, and had them pay off for something really big, or had a big claim rejected. Personally, I would love to be convinced to get one, as CPO just isn't an option for me, and I really plan on being buried in this car. I just don't want to blow $5k and still not sleep well at night. I would rather spend it on a roll cage!
03-29-2016, 10:35 AM
#2
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I have dealt with the OTHER side of the book on extended warranties. As a tech at the dealer to independent shop, most of these warranties are just to make money. They are an insurance claim and they are actually betting that your car will be ok, or that you will drive it until it runs out before anything breaks.
Another thing i see a lot with these is if there is a major failure, say you have an engine "let go" and need a replacement. They are going to find some used junkyard engine and throw it in there rather than a rebuilt or new OEM engine. I have seen them get a 90,000 mile 997S engine for $8500 and throw it in a 10,000 mile car just because it saves them money and how the contract is written they are allowed to do so. They will give you the option to pay the difference on a new or reman OEM but now you paid $5000 for a warranty, they "give" you say $10,000 and you still have to pay $15,000.
Also, another thing most people dont know, is with the paid out labor. Most of these warranty's only want to pay the lowest posted labor rate. which is usually a warranty time.
Example, lets say you have a 997.2 GT3RS and you have an oil pump failure, but its caught early and no extra damage, lets say you have to have your engine R/R and D/A to replace the oil pump. I may tell you 55-65hrs to do the whole job and do it correctly, while warranty time may be 29.2hrs. The warranty will only pay 29.2hrs and they will leave you with the rest of the bill and make you pay the additional 35hrs to put your engine back together. Also, a lot of them only pay to have the FAILED PART replaced and do not pay for collateral parts failure, or anything excess or excess gaskets and such. So if the oil pump is $2000, and a few of the gaskets are $500, and labor is $3500, they may only authorize $6000 on a job that will be well over $10,000.
Some customers think that when they buy an aftermarket warranty that they will never pay anything again out of pocket, In reality, it seems like people pay more out of pocket when they get these things... There is only one person, and one warranty on one car that i would say was a good warranty to buy. I think it was $4500 and he has had about $30-35,000 worth of payout for repairs and such from it... but this is only one and one only but thats it.
I always tell everyone to read all of the fine print or have a lawyer read over it first. BUT they are all garbage in my book. Dealer or PCNA CPO is the only one to get.
Another thing i see a lot with these is if there is a major failure, say you have an engine "let go" and need a replacement. They are going to find some used junkyard engine and throw it in there rather than a rebuilt or new OEM engine. I have seen them get a 90,000 mile 997S engine for $8500 and throw it in a 10,000 mile car just because it saves them money and how the contract is written they are allowed to do so. They will give you the option to pay the difference on a new or reman OEM but now you paid $5000 for a warranty, they "give" you say $10,000 and you still have to pay $15,000.
Also, another thing most people dont know, is with the paid out labor. Most of these warranty's only want to pay the lowest posted labor rate. which is usually a warranty time.
Example, lets say you have a 997.2 GT3RS and you have an oil pump failure, but its caught early and no extra damage, lets say you have to have your engine R/R and D/A to replace the oil pump. I may tell you 55-65hrs to do the whole job and do it correctly, while warranty time may be 29.2hrs. The warranty will only pay 29.2hrs and they will leave you with the rest of the bill and make you pay the additional 35hrs to put your engine back together. Also, a lot of them only pay to have the FAILED PART replaced and do not pay for collateral parts failure, or anything excess or excess gaskets and such. So if the oil pump is $2000, and a few of the gaskets are $500, and labor is $3500, they may only authorize $6000 on a job that will be well over $10,000.
Some customers think that when they buy an aftermarket warranty that they will never pay anything again out of pocket, In reality, it seems like people pay more out of pocket when they get these things... There is only one person, and one warranty on one car that i would say was a good warranty to buy. I think it was $4500 and he has had about $30-35,000 worth of payout for repairs and such from it... but this is only one and one only but thats it.
I always tell everyone to read all of the fine print or have a lawyer read over it first. BUT they are all garbage in my book. Dealer or PCNA CPO is the only one to get.
03-29-2016, 10:46 AM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
Yep Charles, the labor hours needed vs what the company pays "gap" was also mentioned by the people I spoke with. The same comment was made regarding the hourly rate they will pay, vs the actual mechanic rate "gap".
03-29-2016, 01:16 PM
#4
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With labor rates getting closer to $200/hr across the country, most warranty companies are paying those rates, they are on average only paying about 3-4x what the tech gets paid, most wont pay over $135/hr, and when they do they make the customer pay the difference. ALSO many of these have a dedictible PER VISIT and some are PER COMPLAINT meaning if you have a $100 deductible per complaint and you have 5 issues, then your minimum is $500 just to start.
03-29-2016, 05:13 PM
#5
Race Director
Thread Starter
Bottom line: if you think someone is going to take the risk on a car like this, and not have all sorts of ways to limit the damage, you might be in for a rude awakening.
