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.1 to .2 price drop

 
Old 03-16-2016, 04:54 PM
  #16  
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There is more than enough diversity of opinion in the above posts to indicate that no one really knows...

I think the following are fairly reasonable ways to think about it, however:

IF the next gen car brings incremental improvements, some will trade up to have the latest/greatest, or to get the heavily rumored manual transmission; Porsche will probably raise the MSRP substantially to take advantage of the GT3/GT3RS/911R market dynamics ($145k base MSRP?). That might help 991.1 values to stabilize (ie, if the cost of trading up is $40k+ some may think twice).

IF the next gen car brings turbos, some will put their heads in the sand, some will trade up. 991.1 values will remain firm since it will offer a different experience that is no longer available in a new car, and it will be the last NA GT3, presumably.

Recessions, environmental regulations, sunspots, and various other unforeseen black swans will probably have a larger effect, so just enjoy your car(s) and drive them!
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:53 PM
  #17  
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You guys need to realize that the only thing Porsche cares about is maximizing profit. They dont care how much 991.1 or 997.2 holds their value. In fact, I'm sure they want those cars to not appeciate too much in value because guess what? They want you guys to keep buying new cars!

Knowing how successful 991R has been, I'm sure 991.2 will come with a manual transmission as an option. I'm also certain they will keep N/A, again knowing how successful GT4 and 991R has been. Unfortunately that means the prices of 997.1, 997.2, and 991.1 cars will drop significantly. Significantly being, they wont drop 30-40% like other Porsches, they just wont charge the ridiculous premiums they charge now.

That is great news for the car enthusiast simply because no one wants pay sticker for a car that is 5 or 10 years old. We all love these cars but come on, there is a line, I think we crossed that line long ago. Time for a reality check.
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Old 03-16-2016, 06:53 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by GT234RS View Post
It might be the best time to sell GT3/GT3RS now if to maximize the profit. But you lose the enjoyment for 2 years(maybe even more considering the wait time). And there's no many alternative, plus other cars depreciate even faster...

So why not keep it and enjoy it?
Agree for the most part. I love my GT3 and don't want to be without a GT3 or RS for an extended period. I could survive for 3-4 months between selling and getting my .2 GT3 (only if it saves me a lot of money), but I'm not going to do an extremely long period without a GT3/RS. I enjoy driving it too much.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:05 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by DerStig View Post
You guys need to realize that the only thing Porsche cares about is maximizing profit. They dont care how much 991.1 or 997.2 holds their value. In fact, I'm sure they want those cars to not appeciate too much in value because guess what? They want you guys to keep buying new cars! Knowing how successful 991R has been, I'm sure 991.2 will come with a manual transmission as an option. I'm also certain they will keep N/A, again knowing how successful GT4 and 991R has been. Unfortunately that means the prices of 997.1, 997.2, and 991.1 cars will drop significantly. Significantly being, they wont drop 30-40% like other Porsches, they just wont charge the ridiculous premiums they charge now. That is great news for the car enthusiast simply because no one wants pay sticker for a car that is 5 or 10 years old. We all love these cars but come on, there is a line, I think we crossed that line long ago. Time for a reality check.
997 cars won't drop much if at all. They are not cross shopped with new cars. People go and seek them out specifically because they are modern classics. It's not a 6 speed thing. It's a mezger gt1 manual thing.

Also - don't buy into the hype in terms of "improvements" over the .1 In my opinion something is gained and something else is lost. On the 997 for example I think the standard gt3 in 3.6 revs a little better and the twitchy suspension is quite fun. Does the 3.8 make a little more power? Yes. Is the suspension smoothed out? Yes. Not a slam dunk once the cars get older. But if you are a latest and greatest type guy then all that matters...but I would think what will matter more is the tech the cars come with these days. My 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee has more tech than most luxury cars from even two years ago. That matters. So whatever newest app in 2 years will be wirelessly connected to the .2 which will matter more I would think since cars (and people) have moved away from the analog age...
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:16 PM
  #20  
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I think 991.2 GT3 will have a higher MSRP if it comes with manual and 4.0 NA motor + weight savings. Again this is based on 991R pricing. I would assume that GT3 base price would go up $15-25K to around 145-155K. The whole 991 line up is moving up the $$$ ladder.

If this happens, then I think 991.1 GT3 prices won't be affected much other than they wont be selling above MSRP. Also, Porsche may not be able to make too many of the 991.2s with 4.0 motor and therefore numbers may be limited.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:38 PM
  #21  
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I can't imagine the 991.2 GT3 coming with a 4.0 and 6-speed. Those are the two things that make the R special. I expect a .2 GT3 3.8 with a lower redline & 6-speed option and a $6-8k price increase to capitalize on the success of the series. .2 RS 4.0 with PDK-S only with a similar price increase. The big question is Turbo or NA. We need to see (hear) some test mules on the track to know for sure.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:46 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Modena 1
997 cars won't drop much if at all. They are not cross shopped with new cars. People go and seek them out specifically because they are modern classics. It's not a 6 speed thing. It's a mezger gt1 manual thing.

Also - don't buy into the hype in terms of "improvements" over the .1 In my opinion something is gained and something else is lost. On the 997 for example I think the standard gt3 in 3.6 revs a little better and the twitchy suspension is quite fun. Does the 3.8 make a little more power? Yes. Is the suspension smoothed out? Yes. Not a slam dunk once the cars get older. But if you are a latest and greatest type guy then all that matters...but I would think what will matter more is the tech the cars come with these days. My 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee has more tech than most luxury cars from even two years ago. That matters. So whatever newest app in 2 years will be wirelessly connected to the .2 which will matter more I would think since cars (and people) have moved away from the analog age...
Need one of each

As time passes, they all get slow and perform poorly vs the latest and greatest. Then it comes down to which still produce goosebumps. A 3.6 gt3/RS still has goosebump factor in spades. That won't change if they slap a manual in 991.2. 997 3.6, 3.8 and 4.0 all similar car but all materially different experiences. If you have the room and cash, have all 3 AND continue to buy whatever latest/greatest gt4/3/RS product Porsche produces on the newest platform. I sat out the 991 gt3 just because it was SO different than 997s, I couldn't relate. But I'm joining the party again and about to experience a gt4 and 991RS. The 997s are my daughters problems to deal with when I'm gone. Judgement still out on 991rs/gt4.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:55 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Modena 1 View Post
997 cars won't drop much if at all. They are not cross shopped with new cars. People go and seek them out specifically because they are modern classics. It's not a 6 speed thing. It's a mezger gt1 manual thing.

Also - don't buy into the hype in terms of "improvements" over the .1 In my opinion something is gained and something else is lost. On the 997 for example I think the standard gt3 in 3.6 revs a little better and the twitchy suspension is quite fun. Does the 3.8 make a little more power? Yes. Is the suspension smoothed out? Yes. Not a slam dunk once the cars get older. But if you are a latest and greatest type guy then all that matters...but I would think what will matter more is the tech the cars come with these days. My 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee has more tech than most luxury cars from even two years ago. That matters. So whatever newest app in 2 years will be wirelessly connected to the .2 which will matter more I would think since cars (and people) have moved away from the analog age...
997 prices are already dropping for the last 6 months. 997.2s were going as high as 165-175, now you can have them for as low as 110. 997.1s are now as low as high 80s, they were 120k at one point. I suspect that 997.2 will manage to hit 100k but stay around 100k and 997.1 will stay around 70k. Market was in a bubble and it is correcting itself.

I agree about your comments about 997 being classic, which is precisely why I think 991 GT3 will not hold its value as it is not a classic. It has DFI, PDK, RWS, and a lot of tech. It is an amazing car that sounds great, but I dont think it will ever be a classic like the 997 was.

The difference between 997 holding its value and 991 is that people who buy 997 is buying it because its classic whereas a lot of 991 buyers are people who want the excitement and comfort of that car while going fast. There simply is no alternative in 150k price range. The second new one comes out, 991 will be long forgotten, there is absolutely nothing classic about it not in the true sense 997 had. It is an amazing car and I think I will buy one on day, however, a lot of people seems to think because the previous generation cars held their value so much and even appreciated this one will as well and I think that is not true.
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:46 PM
  #24  
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Has there ever been a .1 and .2 series that had the same engine? Or substantially different? It seems so unlikely the .2 will have a turbo engine or exactly the same engine as the .1. Just too radical a departure.
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:16 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by jo_ker View Post
and there i think will happen a massive increase.
my guess: +10 till +15% on the listprice.
i dont think so

Originally Posted by silverrules View Post
.1 owners should sell their cars now because when .2 comes out the .1 value will drop SIGNIFICANTLY and I would do it quickly since 2018 is right around the corner.
totally agree, the RS will significantly take a dump in value. smart owner shoudl liquidate now. ping me if RS owner wants to sell


Originally Posted by DerStig View Post
997 prices are already dropping for the last 6 months. 997.2s were going as high as 165-175, now you can have them for as low as 110. 997.1s are now as low as high 80s, they were 120k at one point. I suspect that 997.2 will manage to hit 100k but stay around 100k and 997.1 will stay around 70k. Market was in a bubble and it is correcting itself.
hy I .
i think you are optimistic. .2RS are still 180+ for good cars. below that are ALL mediocre cars. the value of those cars are always in flux from day to day and hour to hour. the really really cherry stuff had been 180-200+ for a long time and i haven't seen them drop. if you find one that worthy of level 1 condition, i am very intersted. the blue car at PNH is over 300+, i seen it in person. THAT is a level 1 car. but i do hope the drop so i can buy more.
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Old 03-17-2016, 05:21 AM
  #26  
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I appreciate everyones comments, or at least those that address my original question.

Opionions may differ, but I expect the .2 GT3 is get a larger engine, just as it occurred with the .2 997 GT3.

My main question is this. When do we expect the biggest drop in price of the 991.1 GT3?

Nothing is certain, but if we assume that the .2 GT3 will be announced at Geneva in March of 2017 with first US delivery in august/Sept 2017 as a MY 2018 GT3, when will the biggest drop occur in value of the .1 GT3?
Right after the official announcement? or when the .2 GT3 begins to arrive? That is the crux of my question.

If I'm basically screwed or must accept a big drop in price right after the .2 GT3 announcement, I will just keep my .1 Gt3, right up until the day that my .2 GT3 arrives. However, if there is a decent delay in price reduction to be expected until the the .2 GT3 cars arrive in force , then I will sell my .1 GT3 right as the .2 GT3 is announced. (if that will truly save me a big chunk of money)

Thanks,

Last edited by Drifting; 03-17-2016 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 03-17-2016, 05:50 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Drifting View Post
I appreciate everyones comments, or at least those that address my original question. Opionions may differ, but I expect the .2 GT3 is get a larger engine, just as it occurred with the .2 997 GT3. My main question is this. When do we expect the biggest drop in price of the 991.1 GT3? Nothing is certain, but if we assume that the .2 GT3 will be announced at Geneva in March of 2017 with first US delivery in august/Sept 2017 as a MY 2018 GT3, when will the biggest drop occur in value of the .1 GT3? Right after the official announcement? or when the .2 GT3 begins to arrive? That is the crux of my question. If I'm basically screwed or must accept a big drop in price right after the .2 GT3 announcement, I will just keep my .1 Gt3, right up until the day that my .2 GT3 arrives. However, if there is a decent delay in price reduction to be expected until the the .2 GT3 cars arrive in force , then I will sell my .1 GT3 right as the .2 GT3 is announced. (if that will truly save me a big chunk of money) Thanks,
991.2gt3 will definitely get a 4.0l engine and MT option.
The R will still be special because of number plaque in dash.
IMO 991.1gt3 will depreciate like normal when gen 2 is released.
Value will fluctuate depending on economy and engine issues. I'm guessing all E engines will be replaced again.
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:01 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 997rs4.0 View Post
991.2gt3 will definitely get a 4.0l engine and MT option.
The R will still be special because of number plaque in dash.
...
"definitely" =

would be good for many of us.
but real sh*t for the 991R buyers.

as 991R buyer i would be heavily pissed off.
and based on this --> i can´t imagine that Porsche is pissing off a number of: 911 (nearly all their) VIP clients.
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:34 AM
  #29  
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Just rumours (and hopes) about a 991.2 GT3 with 4.0 or something more concrete?

Don’t trust dealers…they always try to sell the “next” car, it’s an easy game for them…and risk free, they do promises, they take a deposit, they secure a wider client basis by baiting the hook before others, they can claim (or hope to get) more allocations from the manufacturer whether “next” car is launched, otherwise…many apologies and refunded deposit – here in Europe so many did this about the R…putting down waiting lists of 6-7 clients for a car they didn’t know could be allocated, is this serious? No

Coming to 4litres GT3 mk2 , I don’t see why Porsche should introduce right now such a car...

4.0 has been developed for a sensibly higher price car (RS), introduced with a lot of emphasis (919 shaft etc etc) and just put into a special edition car (R), why should they “downgrade” it by fitting the entry level in the 911GT world (which is a 40k cheaper car)? Offer a bargain deal to whom are waiting for the “next” GT3? Don’t think so…

Moreover wouldn’t be that fair towards clients who are still waiting they RS and will get their car within next 6 months…

GT3 engine issue have caused a “chain reaction” in scheduled production at Weissach: life cycle of gt3 extended beyond “normal” (in past gt3 series the mk2 was always introduced 6 month after facelift launch), RS introduced with 1 year delay (with some delays cycle extending furthermore the end of production till next summer). I do believe we are too “close” to the end of 991 cycle now… no room for GT3 mk2, RS mk2, especially given still pending issues with 3.8 and what said above about 4.0, that’s why I explain myself the recent decision to produce more RS, all the hurry to launch a special edition (R), the upcoming GT2 RS.
AP also paved the way to this by saying last week that in the future GT3 could be left in favour of (something like) an R and an RS

I also do believe that NA engine will arrive at the end with 911R.

Maybe we will already see something turbo (like this test mule) in the very short term…to be called GT2 or something else.

No better timing for Porsche to do this right now….shortage of GT models , big hype’s around, they will sell each of this “GT2”…they could psychologically prepare people to big shift to turbo’s which will be sure for all 992 range…they could use it as the base for the GT2 RS.

What do you think about?

P.S. coming back to the topic…if this scenario happens, probably all the Na GT’s surely won’t see their value decrease
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Old 03-17-2016, 08:59 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mooty View Post
i dont think so


totally agree, the RS will significantly take a dump in value. smart owner shoudl liquidate now. ping me if RS owner wants to sell




i think you are optimistic. .2RS are still 180+ for good cars. below that are ALL mediocre cars. the value of those cars are always in flux from day to day and hour to hour. the really really cherry stuff had been 180-200+ for a long time and i haven't seen them drop. if you find one that worthy of level 1 condition, i am very intersted. the blue car at PNH is over 300+, i seen it in person. THAT is a level 1 car. but i do hope the drop so i can buy more.
I wasnt talking about RS but the base 997.2 GT3. Those base cars was going as high as 165-175 sometime late last year. I called up a lot of dealerships and these guys would not go down a penny quoting manual transmission and the mezger engine. Those same cars are no 40-60k less and they are a lot more common.

997 GT3RS is something else, that always has the RS factor also....


Dont get me wrong this 991 is simply a stunning and a breathtaking car, but it is no classic and it never will be like the 997 was. It has PDK, RWS, and unfortunately the not so special 9a1 engine. Its price is going to go down considerably because market will be flooded by these cars when .2 comes out. What kept the current prices so high (people who buy them left and right at sticker even with 5k miles) will be the same reason its price go down because those people are the kind who want the next best thing when it comes out. You know how this goes.

Not same kind of car obviously but what happened to E92 M3 with its 8400 rpm revving naturally aspirated engine and 6MT? They kept their value until the new M3 came out and the second it did, they tanked even though the new car is not even 1/10th of the old car from a pureness perspective with its I6 turbo and lawn mower sounding exhaust. Now the old 8400 rpm M3 can be has as low as 30k, thats over 60% of depreciation from 20% 1.5 years ago. Again not same cars, but market will correct itself because market is filled with rich guys with holes in their pocket who will line up for the next best thing
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