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I'm curious what you were expecting, or better what you'd prefer?
Porsche abandoned the hp war long ago. While other manufactures are giving customers ever cheaper power, Porsche generally refuses to:
The GT2 RS has been the lone exception, and indeed if the quoted numbers are correct we're looking at a new point around 467 hp per ton and 280-320k on this graph, far above the trend line (like the old GT2 RS):
Where Porsche have tried to compete, on the other hand, is setup and lap time. Many on paper much lighter and more powerful rivals have fallen short when measured against the clock- put the 918s stats next to the P1s and La Ferrari's, for example. Porsche will try a similar trick again, and I'd bet on them to succeed.
I read "under 7 minutes, we haven't tested it yet or finalized the specs" as Porsche code for "we're beating the 918, we're not sure about the Peformante yet". So we'll have another 911 (not a supercar remember) taking supercar scalps and then going for lunch. Which is long as it has been.
Given this I'm genuinely curious what you feel Porsche should do to make it more special. Manual transmission? More power to keep up with the HP arms race? Shorter wheelbase? Carbon chassis (at which point it's not a 911)?
I'm a manual fan and I'd like the option in principle. I'll admit however that if I had the money for this thing I'd think very hard before ticking a MT box. My experience with GT2s is that they are "both hands on the wheel" kind of cars...
Agreed. Primary wish on my part would be less weight but they're clearly working hard to keep it down so I guess turbos and extra plumping really add up.
Originally Posted by Kobalt
Went to bed then woke up finding that internet exploded...
Fully rose-jointed: Wonder what the service intervall will be - I have no experience of stuff like that.
Not much of an issue based on my fully rose-jointed 997.2 RS.
The Porsche will always have a traction advantage with 265/325 tires...the Ferrari's and McLarens never have that much.
But what is interesting to me is that there will definitely be a 100+ KG advantage for the McLaren, and how that will play out.
Having just driven the 720S I will say that the car is incredible and will humble a lot of people. This next generation of in between super/hyper cars is going to be very very impressive behind the wheel.
From what I am reading in between the lines on the GT2RS it will have canards on the front bumper to help with wheelie prevention. I am also disappointed that they are not "pulling out all the sound deadening" but I guess my shop can do that. If I am forking it out for a super race car lap record machine I don't need 20kg of foam throughout the car.
The Porsche will always have a traction advantage with 265/325 tires...the Ferrari's and McLarens never have that much.
But what is interesting to me is that there will definitely be a 100+ KG advantage for the McLaren, and how that will play out.
Having just driven the 720S I will say that the car is incredible and will humble a lot of people. This next generation of in between super/hyper cars is going to be very very impressive behind the wheel.
From what I am reading in between the lines on the GT2RS it will have canards on the front bumper to help with wheelie prevention. I am also disappointed that they are not "pulling out all the sound deadening" but I guess my shop can do that. If I am forking it out for a super race car lap record machine I don't need 20kg of foam throughout the car.
I'd be surprised if Weissach option doesn't include stripping out some of the sound deadening. The 918 W pack meant both thinner glass and sound deadening removed, along with default AC/Radio delete However, if you added back in the Burmester, the sound deadening was automatically added back to make acoustics work. (Think that was a Burmester stipulation)
Also WP came with Mg wheels, so I'm guessing the magazines are missing spec nuances.
The GT2 RS has been the lone exception, and indeed if the quoted numbers are correct we're looking at a new point around 467 hp per ton and 280-320k on this graph, far above the trend line (like the old GT2 RS):
Where Porsche have tried to compete, on the other hand, is setup and lap time. Many on paper much lighter and more powerful rivals have fallen short when measured against the clock- put the 918s stats next to the P1s and La Ferrari's, for example. Porsche will try a similar trick again, and I'd bet on them to succeed.
I read "under 7 minutes, we haven't tested it yet or finalized the specs" as Porsche code for "we're beating the 918, we're not sure about the Peformante yet". So we'll have another 911 (not a supercar remember) taking supercar scalps and then going for lunch. Which is long as it has been.
Given this I'm genuinely curious what you feel Porsche should do to make it more special. Manual transmission? More power to keep up with the HP arms race? Shorter wheelbase? Carbon chassis (at which point it's not a 911)?
Every car on your graph though is a NA car, 918 apart obviously. If you only plotted all the turbo cars (996 gt2, 997 gt2, various turbo s etc) does the gt2 rs really still seem like such an outlier?
I can't answer for Drifting but I can see why he thinks the way he does about the lack of 'specialness' of the car outside of a potential limited edition plaque at the projected price point. As things stand, the gt2rs looks designed to be a lap time monster little to no different from most of the rest of compeition ie turbo, lots of power, loads of electronics, dual clutch, heavy. Despite the rose joints, I expect the car to be still designed primarily as a road car - just as the 488/720/675 type cars. Certainly I'd expect well over 90% of cars to be specced with leather interior, sat nav, upgraded sound etc...
Every car on your graph though is a NA car, 918 apart obviously. If you only plotted all the turbo cars (996 gt2, 997 gt2, various turbo s etc) does the gt2 rs really still seem like such an outlier?
This was about a year and a half ago, but every Turbo model on sale at that time was included (the dots just to the right and left of the GT3 RS are the Turbo and Turbo S).
You can see the data points in this older version of the graph, as well as the previous GT3 RS which was the previous biggest outlier:
I can't answer for Drifting but I can see why he thinks the way he does about the lack of 'specialness' of the car outside of a potential limited edition plaque at the projected price point. As things stand, the gt2rs looks designed to be a lap time monster little to no different from most of the rest of compeition ie turbo, lots of power, loads of electronics, dual clutch, heavy. Despite the rose joints, I expect the car to be still designed primarily as a road car - just as the 488/720/675 type cars.
You get me. At this price point and with those specs, the 991 GT2RS isn't that special compared to the 488 and 720, and although it looks to be a limited edition, so will be the run of the 488 Speciale and "745LT". Mechanically, there isn't anything particularly special about the GT2RS compared to the other two cars.
Originally Posted by Petevb
I'm curious what you were expecting, or better what you'd prefer?
Given this I'm genuinely curious what you feel Porsche should do to make it more special. Manual transmission? More power to keep up with the HP arms race? Shorter wheelbase? Carbon chassis (at which point it's not a 911)?
I'm a manual fan and I'd like the option in principle. I'll admit however that if I had the money for this thing I'd think very hard before ticking a MT box. My experience with GT2s is that they are "both hands on the wheel" kind of cars...
Pete, my issue is that when the previous 997 GT2RS came out it was very different from the competition. It was light, manual, short wheelbase, high power turbo car, and was a unique experience to drive compared to the Ferrari 458, Lambos, etc, which were NA, long wheelbase, DCT
Now the GT2RS is basically the same as the competition.
I agree with you that I'd like there to be a manual option in principle, although I also agree with 700HP to rear wheels only, PDK-S is likely the safest option, but then again part of the previous mystique of the GT2RS was that driving it was a bit like being a lion tamer.
Anyway, to answer your question I'd like the 991 GT2RS to be more special compared to other 991 turbos and more differentiated from the competition, either by insane power for this limited run of GT2RS, like 800hp, or major weight reduction, like a carbon tub to drop the weight down to 3000 lbs.
The GT2RS still sounds like a great car, and I don't want to take away from that for the future owners on this thread, its just that the 991 GT2RS doesn't sound that different from a 488 Speciale, or a Mclaren LT.
06-04-2017, 10:26 AM
