1RS Owners: Genuine Disappointment?
02-17-2016, 05:15 AM
#61
Burning Brakes
2 weeks ago, everyone's crying how they can't get an allocation, and now people are crying how it's sterile. Honestly, I know a lot of people here who got them, probably did get bored with the 991 GT3/RS. Not because they're lacking of being engaging vehicles to drive. But because these types of people get bored easily no matter what they do. That's honestly part of what's given them drive to become successful enough to be able to afford these cars. Give them a 993 RS and they'll be just as bored in the same amount of time, only for different reasons. Some of the comments that I'm hearing on here make me think, that some of those people just don't really "deserve" to own an RS and SHOULD sell them so that they will be appreciated to their full extent by the next owner. I hate when someone hoards something that others want even though, they really aren't excited about it themselves. That being said, if you have the money and you paid for it (most of them being over MSRP), then I suppose it's yours to do with as you please. It's just a shame that there are people who are true enthusiasts who want these cars so badly, but couldn't get an allocation, while people get bored and tuck them deep into a garage that they probably wont drive them often.
02-17-2016, 09:34 AM
#62
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991 and 981 are better in some ways than the previous generation, not as good in some ways. If you expect any of these Porsches to be better 'in every way', you're bound to be disappointed. They each have their own special character, hence the reason why we have a hard time parting with them and often wind up owning more than one at a time.
That said, if the 991 RS is like the 991 GT3, it's really four cars, not one:
1. Comfy cruiser at modest road speeds
2. Exhilarating to the point of being borderline scary when driven hard on the road
3. Just OK when driven at novice or intermediate level on the track
4. Exhilarating and involving - sometimes mindblowing - when pushed hard on the track
See a pattern? Seems that as people rack up the miles on these cars, they get a better sense of what they are and come to love them more and more. But if your driving is limited to 1 and 3, I don't see the point of owning the car.
That said, if the 991 RS is like the 991 GT3, it's really four cars, not one:
1. Comfy cruiser at modest road speeds
2. Exhilarating to the point of being borderline scary when driven hard on the road
3. Just OK when driven at novice or intermediate level on the track
4. Exhilarating and involving - sometimes mindblowing - when pushed hard on the track
See a pattern? Seems that as people rack up the miles on these cars, they get a better sense of what they are and come to love them more and more. But if your driving is limited to 1 and 3, I don't see the point of owning the car.
02-17-2016, 10:37 AM
#63
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Thread Starter
^ 
2 is definitely true, but at go-straight-to-jail speeds. Also I realize my d_ck factor gets dialed up to 11 the instant I try to have fun in this car
4 is a maybe... but I can't exactly vouch for the exhilaration factor, as it's really gotten much easier to set a laptime in this car. In fairness one can say the same thing of a Speciale vs. a 360, or a 650S vs. just about anything.
As to the detractor's allusion that this thread is about "humble bragging", consider this: not everyone in every market has a "premium" to sell into as you would crudely assume. There are specific places in Asia where customers are locked into high taxes and doubly hurt by dealers too eager to fill every order. HKG happens to be one of that: we pay 2.15x the US price, and have *more* 1RS'es than all UK combined.
Lest there is doubt, this thread started out of real frustration.
2 is definitely true, but at go-straight-to-jail speeds. Also I realize my d_ck factor gets dialed up to 11 the instant I try to have fun in this car
4 is a maybe... but I can't exactly vouch for the exhilaration factor, as it's really gotten much easier to set a laptime in this car. In fairness one can say the same thing of a Speciale vs. a 360, or a 650S vs. just about anything.
As to the detractor's allusion that this thread is about "humble bragging", consider this: not everyone in every market has a "premium" to sell into as you would crudely assume. There are specific places in Asia where customers are locked into high taxes and doubly hurt by dealers too eager to fill every order. HKG happens to be one of that: we pay 2.15x the US price, and have *more* 1RS'es than all UK combined.
Lest there is doubt, this thread started out of real frustration.
02-17-2016, 11:11 AM
#64
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Keep working to drop your laptime. I've done 6K track miles in the 991 GT3, and have liked the car more and more on track. I've found that it comes alive and behaves more like a race car as you lean harder on it and discover that there's yet more grip there.
02-17-2016, 12:17 PM
#65
Drifting
It's one thing to go on a forum and just bash people but it's another thing to go on a forum and give harsh but honest opinions. In my line of work I surround myself with people that challenge me instead of saying 'yes' all the time. It's helped my division grow and outperform the rest of the business segments. I'm getting promoted and taking my team with me - because I love to hear opposing arguments and they deserve this promotion as much as I do. Sometimes they're correct and I'm wrong and sometimes I'm right and they're wrong.
I knew in a few hours of driving the 991 GT3 in the suburbs surrounding the Heckenheimring and on the actual Hockenheimring that the 991 GT3 wasn't for me. The car was sterile and falsely inspirational. A 9000 RPM engine? So what? Lighting quick gear changes? So what? What does that do? A computer on wheels - a car, in most people's hands, that is faster in auto mode on the track than manual mode. That's not a GT3 as we know it. That's a gimmick. Not all technology is good, not all technology is beneficial.
Formel 1 cars are the fastest most brutal cars on the track. 99.1% of the people here would not be able to turn even a quarter lap without spinning out of control. The nature of race cars - need very quick reflexes and an intuitive automotive feel to drive them. The 997 and 996 cars gave us a little bit of this challenge (they're not race cars either) but the 991 force fed us false confidence and piśśing contests. The really good drivers will be bored with the 991, but the average drivers will love it since it elevates them artificially to something they want to be. Porsche knows this and made a car accordingly. Just my humble but harsh and honest opinion.
I knew in a few hours of driving the 991 GT3 in the suburbs surrounding the Heckenheimring and on the actual Hockenheimring that the 991 GT3 wasn't for me. The car was sterile and falsely inspirational. A 9000 RPM engine? So what? Lighting quick gear changes? So what? What does that do? A computer on wheels - a car, in most people's hands, that is faster in auto mode on the track than manual mode. That's not a GT3 as we know it. That's a gimmick. Not all technology is good, not all technology is beneficial.
Formel 1 cars are the fastest most brutal cars on the track. 99.1% of the people here would not be able to turn even a quarter lap without spinning out of control. The nature of race cars - need very quick reflexes and an intuitive automotive feel to drive them. The 997 and 996 cars gave us a little bit of this challenge (they're not race cars either) but the 991 force fed us false confidence and piśśing contests. The really good drivers will be bored with the 991, but the average drivers will love it since it elevates them artificially to something they want to be. Porsche knows this and made a car accordingly. Just my humble but harsh and honest opinion.
02-17-2016, 12:27 PM
#66
The 1RS is visually stunning and has the presence to dwarf just about anything beside it. I've tracked one hard at my home track, and lived with mine as a street car for weeks now. I must say: something's gone missing.
My agenda has nothing to do with nostalgia. I just want to compare notes with others in similar shoes. Do others feel let down?
Observations:
1. 991 Chassis is inherently more grippy and stable vs. earlier cars. This has nothing to do with electronics: drive a 1Cup back-to-back with a 7Cup and it becomes immediately clear... the new chassis is closer to a mid-engined setup than ever. But it's also more muted... the tail comes around with less warning. Still playful, but not as communicative.
2. Electronic Steering is very good, but it's lost a lot of feeling at the limit. Again, I suspect it's got something to do with the new chassis being very capable--the 1Cup suffers from the same problem (even though that car uses the hydraulic setup from the 7 GT3R). Drive the 1 first, hop into any of the earlier RS'es and one will immediately tell the difference in feel.
We already know the facts about the new car. It is massively fast, and has a limit so high that most people won't (and shouldn't) reach on public roads. On track, it adopts the demeanor of a *very easy to drive* Cup. Essentially a Cup for dummies, one with ABS and traction which 90% of the folks can drive with impunity. Think, a GTR with a Porsche crest...
But is that what RS'es are about? I feel that this car with its creature comfort and user-friendliness has compromised too much. It's almost become a mass-market product, a 1TT if you will...
Other owners, please chime in... I'm in need of a mental reset...
Attachment 1020869 Attachment 1020870
My agenda has nothing to do with nostalgia. I just want to compare notes with others in similar shoes. Do others feel let down?
Observations:
1. 991 Chassis is inherently more grippy and stable vs. earlier cars. This has nothing to do with electronics: drive a 1Cup back-to-back with a 7Cup and it becomes immediately clear... the new chassis is closer to a mid-engined setup than ever. But it's also more muted... the tail comes around with less warning. Still playful, but not as communicative.
2. Electronic Steering is very good, but it's lost a lot of feeling at the limit. Again, I suspect it's got something to do with the new chassis being very capable--the 1Cup suffers from the same problem (even though that car uses the hydraulic setup from the 7 GT3R). Drive the 1 first, hop into any of the earlier RS'es and one will immediately tell the difference in feel.
We already know the facts about the new car. It is massively fast, and has a limit so high that most people won't (and shouldn't) reach on public roads. On track, it adopts the demeanor of a *very easy to drive* Cup. Essentially a Cup for dummies, one with ABS and traction which 90% of the folks can drive with impunity. Think, a GTR with a Porsche crest...
But is that what RS'es are about? I feel that this car with its creature comfort and user-friendliness has compromised too much. It's almost become a mass-market product, a 1TT if you will...
Other owners, please chime in... I'm in need of a mental reset...
Attachment 1020869 Attachment 1020870
02-17-2016, 12:30 PM
#67
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We currently have three manual Porsches, one of which has the auto-blip, plus the GT3 with the PDK. I like them all, including the PDK. In fact, I love the PDK, including on the road. Goes back to the point that different things can have their relative pros and cons, each overall enjoyable in its own way, without a need to rank them.
If you like sports cars and can have more than one, have more than one. If you like both manual and PDK and can have them both, have them both. If you can have only car, pick one that seems to work well for your spectrum of uses, and just enjoy it while avoiding the 'grass is greener on the other side' syndrome. Truth is, we're lucky to have any of these cars.
If you like sports cars and can have more than one, have more than one. If you like both manual and PDK and can have them both, have them both. If you can have only car, pick one that seems to work well for your spectrum of uses, and just enjoy it while avoiding the 'grass is greener on the other side' syndrome. Truth is, we're lucky to have any of these cars.
02-17-2016, 06:35 PM
#68
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I've driven the 991 GT3. I just drove a 458 Italia and a race-prepped Boxster at the F1 Curcuit de Barcelona. I preferred the Boxster by a mile, even though it had less than half the HP of the 458. I also prefer my 996 GT3 to the 991 GT3 by a mile. I don't want my GT3 to be comfortable and DD-friendly just like I don't want my single malts to be as drinkable as my daily beer. I also prefer that my GT3 is not wanted or even appreciated by the masses, just like I prefer the same for my single malts vs my beers.
Threads like these are not Luddite critiques against technology and progress. They are about the ENDS towards which these technology advancements are being used. Making a car more comfy, more DD-friendly, and accessible to a wider audience is not the only way to use technology. There are already 20+ non-GT Porsche models available for that. Maybe the GT3/RS program should continue to be about something other than that?
02-17-2016, 06:54 PM
#69
Burning Brakes
Comparing race prepped anything to a street car is silly.
Back to back seat time in current gen street car Ferrari, Mclaren, Mercedes, BMW, lamborghini, Porsche... The Porsche is the only car that will do what I ask it to. Faster? Don't know, but a street car that is rewarding to drive is all we're after, isn't it?
Back to back seat time in current gen street car Ferrari, Mclaren, Mercedes, BMW, lamborghini, Porsche... The Porsche is the only car that will do what I ask it to. Faster? Don't know, but a street car that is rewarding to drive is all we're after, isn't it?
02-17-2016, 07:40 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
Yeah, I can't go back.
997 steering tiny bit more feel, so you can feel the car not going where you want it to go. I rather feel tiny bit less when it IS going where I want it to go.
Turns like mid engine but feels and stops like rear engine
No mods, no wheels no tools. Just perfect in track and perfect for driving home quiet on blue tooth / nav, good radio. What's not to like? It's my dayly driver now. I was thinking selling RS once. But now all the rest goes instead.
It's also too big, but with my fat giraffe build that's perfect.
The most playful car I have ever driven, so easy to drift rotate and play and there is a very very good catching net for when you run out of talent or hit a 997 coolant patch.
No, I loved the 964RS as much as a 997 GT3 drives the same just slower. Is that testament to how good RSA is or how little improved the 4.0 is??
Loving Mr purple enough to now sit back wondering if I still want a GT4, if so its for budget only. The 964RSA is going to get sold. I'll just never grab it over Mr purple...
I can't wait to try this technology with a couple turbos strapped on....
997 steering tiny bit more feel, so you can feel the car not going where you want it to go. I rather feel tiny bit less when it IS going where I want it to go.
Turns like mid engine but feels and stops like rear engine
No mods, no wheels no tools. Just perfect in track and perfect for driving home quiet on blue tooth / nav, good radio. What's not to like? It's my dayly driver now. I was thinking selling RS once. But now all the rest goes instead.
It's also too big, but with my fat giraffe build that's perfect.
The most playful car I have ever driven, so easy to drift rotate and play and there is a very very good catching net for when you run out of talent or hit a 997 coolant patch.
No, I loved the 964RS as much as a 997 GT3 drives the same just slower. Is that testament to how good RSA is or how little improved the 4.0 is??
Loving Mr purple enough to now sit back wondering if I still want a GT4, if so its for budget only. The 964RSA is going to get sold. I'll just never grab it over Mr purple...
I can't wait to try this technology with a couple turbos strapped on....
02-17-2016, 08:20 PM
#71
Yeah, I can't go back. 997 steering tiny bit more feel, so you can feel the car not going where you want it to go. I rather feel tiny bit less when it IS going where I want it to go. Turns like mid engine but feels and stops like rear engine No mods, no wheels no tools. Just perfect in track and perfect for driving home quiet on blue tooth / nav, good radio. What's not to like? It's my dayly driver now. I was thinking selling RS once. But now all the rest goes instead. It's also too big, but with my fat giraffe build that's perfect. The most playful car I have ever driven, so easy to drift rotate and play and there is a very very good catching net for when you run out of talent or hit a 997 coolant patch. No, I loved the 964RS as much as a 997 GT3 drives the same just slower. Is that testament to how good RSA is or how little improved the 4.0 is?? Loving Mr purple enough to now sit back wondering if I still want a GT4, if so its for budget only. The 964RSA is going to get sold. I'll just never grab it over Mr purple... I can't wait to try this technology with a couple turbos strapped on....
No mods, no wheels no tools. Just perfect in track and perfect for driving home quiet on blue tooth / nav, good radio. What's not to like? It's my dayly driver now. I was thinking selling RS once. But now all the rest goes instead. It's also too big, but with my fat giraffe build that's perfect. The most playful car I have ever driven, so easy to drift rotate and play and there is a very very good catching net for when you run out of talent or hit a 997 coolant patch. No, I loved the 964RS as much as a 997 GT3 drives the same just slower. Is that testament to how good RSA is or how little improved the 4.0 is?? Loving Mr purple enough to now sit back wondering if I still want a GT4, if so its for budget only. The 964RSA is going to get sold. I'll just never grab it over Mr purple... I can't wait to try this technology with a couple turbos strapped on....This is what is all about. Finding the perfect Porsche for your needs.
And it seems like you are not the only one that thinks this way. Just look at how hard it is to get your hands on one @ reasonable price.
We see a lot of threads about this or that car is suitable as a DD.
No one uses them the same way or live and drive the same roads, so impossible to give accurate advice.
Some trailer road cars to track and use them as cup cars! Nothing right or wrong. Just different way of use and enjoyment.
02-17-2016, 08:23 PM
#72
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Where can I buy one of these complaining posters and who's this Brendan fellow? Isn't he the kid with the strange hair and funny accent that makes his passengers throw up.
This thread is teetering on dog territory so....
C.J. Not Ichiban; the other one winner
This thread is teetering on dog territory so....
C.J. Not Ichiban; the other one winner
02-17-2016, 08:32 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
Awesome^
This is what is all about. Finding the perfect Porsche for your needs.
And it seems like you are not the only one that thinks this way. Just look at how hard it is to get your hands on one @ reasonable price.
We see a lot of threads about this or that car is suitable as a DD.
No one uses them the same way or live and drive the same roads, so impossible to give accurate advice.
Some trailer road cars to track and use them as cup cars! Nothing right or wrong. Just different way of use and enjoyment.
This is what is all about. Finding the perfect Porsche for your needs.
And it seems like you are not the only one that thinks this way. Just look at how hard it is to get your hands on one @ reasonable price.
We see a lot of threads about this or that car is suitable as a DD.
No one uses them the same way or live and drive the same roads, so impossible to give accurate advice.
Some trailer road cars to track and use them as cup cars! Nothing right or wrong. Just different way of use and enjoyment.
You lost me. Nice dog.
02-17-2016, 09:04 PM
#74
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