1RS Owners: Genuine Disappointment?
02-16-2016, 12:25 AM
#16
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Finally a thread that speaks my mind! Had a few drinks and here's my take. Flame suit on!
As an ex 997.2RS, 991GT3, and recent a 991RS owner I do agree on what the op is saying. The 991 it's self is too much of a GT car to begin with, which makes it perfect for a weekend track car to be driven comfortably on the streets. Porsche created the gt3/rs as an perfect all rounder, but for some of us being an "GT" enthusiast, we have an certain expectation of some racing pedigree.
Every time when I ask my self... Do I really like the 991RS??? Can't say I am a 100% sure...the car feels abit "numb" just like the 991GT3 that I sold, it's just too easy to drive (which can be a good thing), and doesn't give me that "goose bump" whenever I take it out. Funny thing is at the same time I just can't find anything I dislike about it... It does it's job and lay down track times very well.
With the market being very hot for GT3/RS, it makes the ownership more of a bragging rights then pure enjoyment of the car. I know many of you would totally disagree and tell me to go sell my car now. Lol
Also I hear many guys think the gt3/rs sounds good? Call me crazy but I think an e93m3 with M performance exhaust or even a c2s with sports exhaust sounds better. I can name a dozen more!! Never mind talking about lambo or Ferrari.
Lastly and I think the main issue is the pdk-S. It's the perfect track tool, but auto shifting can never be exact on what your brain tells you. Like Upshift/downshift points + the left leg just hangs around (finally a reason for a foot rest).
Imagine the 991 gt3/rs havin a M/T... How cool would that be!!!
Being a guy that even likes single clutch tranny on a LP-560. This pdk-S is just another dsg gearbox out of an GTI. Precise... But no fun...
Porsche is changing...look at the .2 line up with its turbo engines...And a 4cyl boxster/Cayman???? Future isn't looking very good...
Haha, think I should shut up now and enjoy my UV until the next one.
As an ex 997.2RS, 991GT3, and recent a 991RS owner I do agree on what the op is saying. The 991 it's self is too much of a GT car to begin with, which makes it perfect for a weekend track car to be driven comfortably on the streets. Porsche created the gt3/rs as an perfect all rounder, but for some of us being an "GT" enthusiast, we have an certain expectation of some racing pedigree.
Every time when I ask my self... Do I really like the 991RS??? Can't say I am a 100% sure...the car feels abit "numb" just like the 991GT3 that I sold, it's just too easy to drive (which can be a good thing), and doesn't give me that "goose bump" whenever I take it out. Funny thing is at the same time I just can't find anything I dislike about it... It does it's job and lay down track times very well.
With the market being very hot for GT3/RS, it makes the ownership more of a bragging rights then pure enjoyment of the car. I know many of you would totally disagree and tell me to go sell my car now. Lol
Also I hear many guys think the gt3/rs sounds good? Call me crazy but I think an e93m3 with M performance exhaust or even a c2s with sports exhaust sounds better. I can name a dozen more!! Never mind talking about lambo or Ferrari.
Lastly and I think the main issue is the pdk-S. It's the perfect track tool, but auto shifting can never be exact on what your brain tells you. Like Upshift/downshift points + the left leg just hangs around (finally a reason for a foot rest).
Imagine the 991 gt3/rs havin a M/T... How cool would that be!!!
Being a guy that even likes single clutch tranny on a LP-560. This pdk-S is just another dsg gearbox out of an GTI. Precise... But no fun...
Porsche is changing...look at the .2 line up with its turbo engines...And a 4cyl boxster/Cayman???? Future isn't looking very good...
Haha, think I should shut up now and enjoy my UV until the next one.
Last edited by wsy; 02-16-2016 at 12:50 AM.
02-16-2016, 01:20 AM
#18
Pro
The 1RS is visually stunning and has the presence to dwarf just about anything beside it. I've tracked one hard at my home track, and lived with mine as a street car for weeks now. I must say: something's gone missing.
My agenda has nothing to do with nostalgia. I just want to compare notes with others in similar shoes. Do others feel let down?
Observations:
1. 991 Chassis is inherently more grippy and stable vs. earlier cars. This has nothing to do with electronics: drive a 1Cup back-to-back with a 7Cup and it becomes immediately clear... the new chassis is closer to a mid-engined setup than ever. But it's also more muted... the tail comes around with less warning. Still playful, but not as communicative.
2. Electronic Steering is very good, but it's lost a lot of feeling at the limit. Again, I suspect it's got something to do with the new chassis being very capable--the 1Cup suffers from the same problem (even though that car uses the hydraulic setup from the 7 GT3R). Drive the 1 first, hop into any of the earlier RS'es and one will immediately tell the difference in feel.
We already know the facts about the new car. It is massively fast, and has a limit so high that most people won't (and shouldn't) reach on public roads. On track, it adopts the demeanor of a *very easy to drive* Cup. Essentially a Cup for dummies, one with ABS and traction which 90% of the folks can drive with impunity. Think, a GTR with a Porsche crest...
But is that what RS'es are about? I feel that this car with its creature comfort and user-friendliness has compromised too much. It's almost become a mass-market product, a 1TT if you will...
Other owners, please chime in... I'm in need of a mental reset...
Attachment 1020869 Attachment 1020870
My agenda has nothing to do with nostalgia. I just want to compare notes with others in similar shoes. Do others feel let down?
Observations:
1. 991 Chassis is inherently more grippy and stable vs. earlier cars. This has nothing to do with electronics: drive a 1Cup back-to-back with a 7Cup and it becomes immediately clear... the new chassis is closer to a mid-engined setup than ever. But it's also more muted... the tail comes around with less warning. Still playful, but not as communicative.
2. Electronic Steering is very good, but it's lost a lot of feeling at the limit. Again, I suspect it's got something to do with the new chassis being very capable--the 1Cup suffers from the same problem (even though that car uses the hydraulic setup from the 7 GT3R). Drive the 1 first, hop into any of the earlier RS'es and one will immediately tell the difference in feel.
We already know the facts about the new car. It is massively fast, and has a limit so high that most people won't (and shouldn't) reach on public roads. On track, it adopts the demeanor of a *very easy to drive* Cup. Essentially a Cup for dummies, one with ABS and traction which 90% of the folks can drive with impunity. Think, a GTR with a Porsche crest...
But is that what RS'es are about? I feel that this car with its creature comfort and user-friendliness has compromised too much. It's almost become a mass-market product, a 1TT if you will...
Other owners, please chime in... I'm in need of a mental reset...
Attachment 1020869 Attachment 1020870
02-16-2016, 01:23 AM
#19
Race Director
^^^No flame suit needed. I just traded my GT3 for a GT4 which will be here in June. I just wanted a more engaging/fun car back again. The 991 GT3 is an awesome car but I do not track, lap times and ease of driving with a coffee in my hand does not matter. I am hoping to bridge the gap until the next GT3 is offered with a manual. My bet - the 991R will lead most back to a manual - you will see. This whole thing that I will never go back to a Manual is horse crap - you will see.
02-16-2016, 01:46 AM
#20
Having never owned an RS or a 911 before all I can say is that I love this car. The fact that it can go from a tame road car to a track car so easily is amazing. Compared to a similar track focused car like the 458 Speciale, the RS outperforms it in many categories. It is much more planted in the corners and the transmission is seamless. However I have never driven any other 911 besides this. Are the 997 RS's really as good as people say or is it just nostalgia for a different era?
02-16-2016, 02:52 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
997RS is not old enough to have nostalgia. People rave about them for good reason 
Having never owned an RS or a 911 before all I can say is that I love this car. The fact that it can go from a tame road car to a track car so easily is amazing. Compared to a similar track focused car like the 458 Speciale, the RS outperforms it in many categories. It is much more planted in the corners and the transmission is seamless. However I have never driven any other 911 besides this. Are the 997 RS's really as good as people say or is it just nostalgia for a different era?
02-16-2016, 03:50 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
A. - just got off the phone with a 997 GT3 collector. Was chatting about how much I wanted to like the 991 RS. After owning/driving/tracking it for 6 months, I have grown to like it a lot more than I initially did. That's because I am older, fatter and lazier than before. Performance is far more accessible in new spaceship versus older GT3's/RS' and the interior is a real upgrade. However,...
I am not in love with this car. I don't lust after the driving experiences the old 997 and 996 GT3s gave me. Used to go out for 30min drives to clear my head and connect with the car; always came back with a smile with 997/996. Doesn't happen with this spaceship. Spaceship is doing too much work; I feel too less connected to it at the limits where I have most fun. If I'm having fun on public roads with it, I am sure I should be behind bars; weekend back-road driving is not fun anymore.
I figure most people on RL are enthusiasts. Especially those who fell in love with 996 and 997 GT3s will feel how you and I feel. However, the reality is we are a minority now as new buyers are cross-shopping 991 RS with F-cars / Lambos / McLarens, etc. It's good for Porsche and growing the brand to more people. I am at peace knowing my favorite cars have already been produced. I have very little interest in self-driving cars, hybrid/electric innovation, etc. I am a dinosaur wanting driver connectivity and a manual gearbox (a.k.a. millennial theft deterrent) for the toy car.
You are not alone.
I am not in love with this car. I don't lust after the driving experiences the old 997 and 996 GT3s gave me. Used to go out for 30min drives to clear my head and connect with the car; always came back with a smile with 997/996. Doesn't happen with this spaceship. Spaceship is doing too much work; I feel too less connected to it at the limits where I have most fun. If I'm having fun on public roads with it, I am sure I should be behind bars; weekend back-road driving is not fun anymore.
I figure most people on RL are enthusiasts. Especially those who fell in love with 996 and 997 GT3s will feel how you and I feel. However, the reality is we are a minority now as new buyers are cross-shopping 991 RS with F-cars / Lambos / McLarens, etc. It's good for Porsche and growing the brand to more people. I am at peace knowing my favorite cars have already been produced. I have very little interest in self-driving cars, hybrid/electric innovation, etc. I am a dinosaur wanting driver connectivity and a manual gearbox (a.k.a. millennial theft deterrent) for the toy car.
You are not alone.
02-16-2016, 03:57 AM
#23
every car is different... for better or worse. Plus we all change. Who you are at 30 is different from who you are at 40 or 50. There will never be a 'perfect car for every occasion'. Like others said, you just need to collect them all haha. Case in point I currently have a GTR and a scion FRS. Completely opposite philosophies but both great in their own ways.
02-16-2016, 05:36 AM
#25
Race Car
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Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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02-16-2016, 07:31 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
I've been here since the beginning. Fresh from 12 years in the 993 board...,
We had all these discussions about the 991 GT3 when it was released. I was wondering when it would happen with the RS. They are fundamentally the same formulae. Even the journos didn't lament the passing of MT in the reviews, no one mentioned once that it could be too much car for the road...how quick we all seem to be to adapt and forget.
I sold my 996.1 GT3 after my 993 RS 11 years ago because it was "too sterile". Go figure. One mans celling is another mans floor?
For me the 991 GT3 is like the modern smartphone. It's a pretty fine phone and a pretty good computer and very convenient. I won't leave home without it and although there's another 125 million iPhones that look the same out there it's one of my most important possessions. Those old enough to remember what the old smartphones were like will understand how far it's all come...,
...and it's the same with my GT3. The car can take me to the shops, get me around town on speakerphone then I can RSG it on a back road in 2nd and 3rd gear at 9000 till the hairs stand on my neck and on Saturday pound it on the track at speeds that make my mind blow, then Bluetooth link it to my phone and listen to Vivaldi puttering home in the freeway in Auto all exhausted and gooey inside having spent myself over 8 hrs on the track....
And that's what it is folks. It's not a Bowie knife or a katana or a serrated diving knife but a multi tool pocket piece that can lend itself to almost any application with reasonable aplomb and get the job done.
Not a single 991 RS owner on here couldn't sell that that thing today and raise enough cash to go out and buy a 996.2 Gt3 track warrior, a 993 c2 speed weekend back road wizard AND a 3.2 feel good car ALL AT ONCE!!!
No it's not a 997 GT3RS and frankly those are not a patch on diver involvement vs a 993RS or a 964RS (I know as I've had them) and even those are not as engaging as a 73S or RS.
You choose your poison. My advice. By a really really good example of a well set up and modified air cooled manual and with the change from your RS a 991 GT3 Swiss Army knife and with what's left over buy some crude index ETF to sit on for when the market corrects. Heck take the family on a trip to New Zealand as you'll surely have enough left to over :-)
Nuff said....
We had all these discussions about the 991 GT3 when it was released. I was wondering when it would happen with the RS. They are fundamentally the same formulae. Even the journos didn't lament the passing of MT in the reviews, no one mentioned once that it could be too much car for the road...how quick we all seem to be to adapt and forget.
I sold my 996.1 GT3 after my 993 RS 11 years ago because it was "too sterile". Go figure. One mans celling is another mans floor?
For me the 991 GT3 is like the modern smartphone. It's a pretty fine phone and a pretty good computer and very convenient. I won't leave home without it and although there's another 125 million iPhones that look the same out there it's one of my most important possessions. Those old enough to remember what the old smartphones were like will understand how far it's all come...,
...and it's the same with my GT3. The car can take me to the shops, get me around town on speakerphone then I can RSG it on a back road in 2nd and 3rd gear at 9000 till the hairs stand on my neck and on Saturday pound it on the track at speeds that make my mind blow, then Bluetooth link it to my phone and listen to Vivaldi puttering home in the freeway in Auto all exhausted and gooey inside having spent myself over 8 hrs on the track....
And that's what it is folks. It's not a Bowie knife or a katana or a serrated diving knife but a multi tool pocket piece that can lend itself to almost any application with reasonable aplomb and get the job done.
Not a single 991 RS owner on here couldn't sell that that thing today and raise enough cash to go out and buy a 996.2 Gt3 track warrior, a 993 c2 speed weekend back road wizard AND a 3.2 feel good car ALL AT ONCE!!!
No it's not a 997 GT3RS and frankly those are not a patch on diver involvement vs a 993RS or a 964RS (I know as I've had them) and even those are not as engaging as a 73S or RS.
You choose your poison. My advice. By a really really good example of a well set up and modified air cooled manual and with the change from your RS a 991 GT3 Swiss Army knife and with what's left over buy some crude index ETF to sit on for when the market corrects. Heck take the family on a trip to New Zealand as you'll surely have enough left to over :-)
Nuff said....
02-16-2016, 09:15 AM
#28
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True Rennsport for the street with a factory warranty is done. Porsche is smart. They know their demographic and their demographic doesn't actually want true Rennsport because it would be too loud, uncomfortable, and lacking in convenience.
Inspected an ex-Rolex 997.2 4.0L Cup over the weekend. Glorious beast. Makes more sense in the end for chasing that hair-on-fire experience. Just wish I could drive it every weekend.
BTW Crex, your UV looks great.
Inspected an ex-Rolex 997.2 4.0L Cup over the weekend. Glorious beast. Makes more sense in the end for chasing that hair-on-fire experience. Just wish I could drive it every weekend.
BTW Crex, your UV looks great.
Last edited by Nizer; 02-16-2016 at 01:52 PM.
02-16-2016, 09:48 AM
#29
Still waiting for mine, but probably just going to sell it or store it. I think Macca is right - been looking for a good RHD 964 RS that I'll keep until I give it to my son.
02-16-2016, 09:56 AM
#30
Drifting
Macca
reading this thread and thinking "really guys"; thanks, thinking your analysis spot on ,
not qualified to comment as haven't had the privilege to ride or own.
I would think if it's to boring and quiet, smooth and the Bluetooth phone call is annoying
F it then click down 2 gears and mat it take the cars like gates on an slalom course going thru traffic
and you will soon meet up with LEO . Such a Conundrum. Some say Life's a Bitch and then you Die.
I say have fun with all you do getting there and how fortunate to get there with the best .
Ok where's the door
I'll show myself out
reading this thread and thinking "really guys"; thanks, thinking your analysis spot on ,
not qualified to comment as haven't had the privilege to ride or own.
I would think if it's to boring and quiet, smooth and the Bluetooth phone call is annoying
F it then click down 2 gears and mat it take the cars like gates on an slalom course going thru traffic
and you will soon meet up with LEO . Such a Conundrum. Some say Life's a Bitch and then you Die.
I say have fun with all you do getting there and how fortunate to get there with the best .
Ok where's the door
I'll show myself out
Last edited by R.Deacon; 02-16-2016 at 10:33 AM.