levd

Thank you, Macca!

Then I definitely need to find these two RL'ers who had the same transmission problem. I don't want to stuck with transmission rebuild for months. It's only 5 months of driveable weather here and I already missed half of it this year. Your info about this issue is very valuable, I hope I'll find these guys here.

In your opinion, can I ask PAG for some compensation and what can it be? Money? Warranty extension (I already bought it up to Nov. 2018 anyway)?Allocation for a nice GT car? Something else? Or they will just laugh to my face and tell me I've got my repairs and supercool loaners?

Macca

Levd. Over here we both were given two additional years warranty at no cost. This would usually be just under 2000 E per year. As we both get noted to keep our 991 GT3 until end in 2018 and our factory warranty was running out end of 2016 this seemed fair value and good peace of mind. In your case I would be asking similar in cash compensation (4000E) sighting lost track time and important social fixtures. It is indeed the case the issue has become interrupted at least 2 track days you paid for directly when the engine failed first time and second time when testing their fix with the plus/leads. Alternatively if cash compensation is an issue for them from an accounting perspective then two sets of MpSC2 tyres would seem reasonable to me, and god knows (as well as GT3/RS track junkies) you will surely use those up within 12 months! I know some in US with this issue have had cash compensation you can find mention of it on one of the other engine failure posts but they have not said in public how much, usually if they have the car on finance it has been their monthly payments etc. For the gearbox issue its was a recent thread posted on in the last few weeks but on limited bandwidth here where I am today it may be quicker to find. If not I will take a look for you. It's an absolutely identical issue your symptoms are exactly the same, latency under throttle fort been nine to build power in low rpm then it kicks in. Memory says it's some kind of eke tropic sensor or switch that needs addressing but unsure if consensus was this solved the issue 100%.

If not this then my money is on micros witch within PDK unit mounted in plastic bracket. A local specialist here has taken to stripping down a PDK unit as he be,urges PAG will eventually stop swapping full units out after warranty and he hopes to get the business to report. He told me the factory made a mistake using a cheap 10c part to mount this important switch, the mount fatigues with the heat in the box and fails locking the be engine into a specific gear range. Usually this is the loss of gears on a pinion like even gears a no reverse which is not your issue. There have been 3-4 PDK issues reported in these boards (relatively few given the number of cars, use and miles), and in all cases OAG have replaced entire unit with news s is their current policy. Usually car is down for 2-3 weeks. Maybe run a few track days first and then demand gearbox replacement end of summer then ask for more compensation again. After 3 years you have newly rebuilt engine, new gear box and compensation. As I say to myself wife who looks at me with incredible eyes when these issues have happened (for us three engines), the GT3 is the "gift that keeps on giving". With cash compensation in 2014 and third year warranty extension plus lately two more year I figure a new gearbox might be nice for me to have in winter along with some Porsche Exclusive winter wear compensation to make my cost of ownership with this car low and make up for my buddies who laugh at/with me! I have been a loyal ambassador for their 991 GT3 from the beginning after all!! The thing Ng that really amazes me in some market like UK and US these cars are 2.5 years on worth more than new price! Ha!

levd

Macca,

Did I found the right one?

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-cylinder.html

BTW I left foot brake, always.

Macca

Yes that's the one!! You may have to give up the LFB technique?

levd

I can live with this issue if it's really a side effect of LFB. It never appears on track anyway.

The easy way to test is city driving with RFB for a while. Like 2 weeks. I'm not sure I'm still able to RFB, whole RFB concept sounds weird for me , but I will try.

One big downside of LFB is you're getting scared of using manual on track. So maybe it's time for me to re-learn back to RFB. Majority does it and I'm not nearly great driver anyway, so I think following the majority can not be a bad choice for me. Also RFB means much less pads and rotors wear, which is nice.

Macca

Also for what it's worth do you have cruise control? I do not and I was LFB for a while in this car without issue. I gave up LFB when I found very little advantage with it on track but that thread has me wondering if the issue is prevalent over time with cars that have cruise control because of the additional sensors and software? Many US cars have cruise but it's not needed much here....I'd be curious if you have cruise control. Anyway this thread may give you dealer a clue to what parts to replace...

levd

I have CC. Hardly ever use it, but I have it.

Macca

That seems like the commonality in the limited instance of this issue so far. There may be additional sensors, switches and/or programming (ie separate ECU) for managing the cruise for nations which get confused with the LFB...

MileHigh911

Don't twist it backwards to mean something else. All of this RL chatter about engine replacement fears, and what truly is the difference with the E,F,G engines, and whether Porsche will stand behind their product if there is a future problem, etc etc comes from the fact Porsche has been tight lipped since the Con-Rod issue. Due to the concerns by PAG to fall on their face before they even got past model year one GT3 991 cars, they properly recalled, investigated, found a fix, and reported to all what they found the issue to be. They even proceeded to put the engine (4.0 L derivative) into Motorsports, further convincing their loyal customers that this was the next Mezger. They even compensated these early adopters.

Since then---crickets from Porsche. We have RL members tracking how many engine failures, we have RL members that could diagnose the symptoms before the dealer techs (they simply follow the steps to see if the top end or engine needs replacement). Dealers are essentially clueless as to what has been changing and why.

Through all of this, Porsche has not informed anyone yet about changes to the top end. Was it a DLC problem (and how/when did they change/fix it), Oil filter changes because why? , extra oiling of the top end? (Keep in mind typically you can find PET diagrams of any changes---but the 991 GT3 3.8L PET diagrams are secret I guess). Loyal Porsche customers still stick by the brand, still purchased the car through 2015 and 2016. Still own the car today. I would think an "unloyal" customer has already dumped the car back into the market and doesn't care. They switched to a Ferrari or McClaren or a Lambo. They are not waiting to buy the next GT car from this brand.

Macca

Well said and spot on. Porsche have done what any large public company would be advised to do in these circumstances (and say nothing) and get on with business. We may not like that as customers but from a purely prudent business strategy point of view it is a smart move on their part. Other manufacturers are the same. The dealer network is an enabler - nothin else - and probably the least trust worthy link in the supply chain. Even component suppliers probably have more clue to what is going on in doe circumstances. Many forget that with this car there was a very early "recall" before the car was even delivered when 4 weeks into production they determined a rework was required on completed cars. Those first cars destined for the east (UAE) were stored until the fix was applied whilst the delivery timeline for US and other cars was delayed. My ROW car was caught up with this and was due for production September but delayed till Nov 27. I had flights (and my life) on hold for a DE delivery that took place eventually at short notice in early Dec 2013. Those around since the beginning will remember this. At the time I had good source close to factory and was told the issue was an upgraded transmission cooler for the PDK but to this day we were never told and never will be. He result of all this is they made less 991 GT3 than they will likely finish making RS or GT4 or any future GT3 cars in this post VAG/Dieselgate world. That and the history with this cars development and the 9000 rpm rev limit will all be unique to this model for all of time. For good or bad, but with the way these things go for collectors one day I suspect for the good (values etc).

Its interesting what you say about the vagueness of PET because I've been recently trying to get a copy of 991 RS PET and still cannot (someone help me?) although my dealer has it as well as updates including 2016 G engine parts numbers changes. Charles Dundon also acquired these early on and shared some insights including a change in the rocker finger and tap pet part number (revision) for the F engine cars and the complete head part number revision for the G engine car including a number of other parts like rings and oil pump, filter and filter neck etc. changes were made but PAG have been dubious to allow these to filter online via .pdf PET updates one assumes because "prying eyes" will immediately determine the running changes that have been incorporated. Subsequently the G 991 GT3 MA175 engine is probably the most scrutinised production engine they have ever made. It would not surprise me to find them ended up using the space metal crank as well essentially taking the MA176 RS engine they were happy with and de-evolutionising (new Word) it to ensure it was the final word in reliability. A de stroked 4.0L with a lighter piston head and higher red line (a headline figure I bet they never allowed marketing to convince them to use). The RS was born for a 9000 redline - some of the original marketing videos they released for the car stupidly left the original tacho footage in place (they are on YouTube now forever!) obviously filmed in 2014 before the stop sale, but these were de tuned to "8800" a figure that in reality can not be achieved in one gear and to this day I can't fathom how the media missed it. Clearly PAG are too moorland to the motoring media for them to fall foul. The 911R goes one step further in having a hard rev limit if 8500 and no longer is the redline marketing gambit! The reality is even the G Bd RS engine may not be ultimately fail safe I'd pushed hard for long enough, as even the racing program was enveloping the engine further long after the RS and G went into production. Let's face it the Mezger took 25 years to become what it was and even in its last iteration it was not bullet proof (4.0L RS). Just talk to the old timers about timing belt issues, 964 with least gasket less heads and ionising distributor cap arms, stretching head studs, 993 wring loom issues leading to fires let alone the MA96 pours bores D RMS issues...the list goes on, nothing is perfect first time around. Porsche may be good but I increasingly believe without motorsports and particularly in history US based private race teams to AUD development f their engines filtering down into production their engines would never have been half as reliable as they even are now. Without US money and technical input and volume sales (thus customer proto typing!) their development cycle would have been much slower....

There is a lot going on in this story and plenty that is untold. One day someone may uncover the whole truth but I doubt it. Ne thing is sure - it adds a tonne of mystic to this model like it or not. I for one would not have met as many of you and made so many contacts and friends via this car if it had run like clockwork out of the box. In some strange way it's endeared me to my 991 GT3 and as I said before I sometimes laugh and say it's the gift that keeps on giving!!

<3mph

Thanks for all the info. I have learned so much from you, Macca, and others on here.

levd

Got my baby back.

G-d, I almost forgot how beautiful it looks and drives! I don't know any other car like this.

Engine rebulid took 2 months and 1 week. Could be quicker, but new upper part from PAG was defective, so they needed to get additional parts and repair it. Bad luck.

Dealer will try to negotiate some compensation for me from PAG. They said worst scenario is I'll get some coupons for Porsche Driver's Selection, as PAG gives some to dealers for promotional purpose. I would really hate it, but I mostly unlucky with lotteries, so there's a chance I'll just get another Martini umbrella (the last one only survived for 5 minutes). Hopefully PAG will give me something better than merchandise coupons

Learning back to RFB. Need to master it till Sunday, to feel comfortable on track. Seems far easier than learning LFB. So far. Really hope my transmission issue will be resolved with this. Thanks, Macca! As always, you're help is precious.

Asked the dealer about 991.2 GT3. No new info.

Jimmy-D

Not a lurker but an enthusiast. In the end all ended well and, yes, Porsche did me right . But- I am still a little irritated by all of this. In a way; I wish all of this hanging in the back of my mind did not influence my decision to sell it. I would be lying if I did not admit this- and I am not alone here. And, yes I would love to have an updated version of this engine in the mid-engine GT4. To me, that would be the best of both worlds but then that car would probably be unattainable.

I am sorry if my bantering about this topic is unfair and it probably is for the current Owners. But, I also know that all of this is in the back of many people's minds here or this thread would not have so many hits.

I do wish Porsche would publicly insure all the Owners of the potential issues and reassure that they will be taking care of all even after warranty. If not, they will kill the resale on these and unfair to all.

KINGSRULE

So now you can/cannot LFB,RFB, engage cruise control, can't drive around town...WTF,? Can't get a PET. Where are the end of the faults in this car?

This is a Porsche GT car! Heck its a Porsche, period. It should have been completely sorted before it was sold. I understand the bad rod bolts but you cannot convince me Porsche didn't know about the valve train issues, poor oiling , plastic bracket in PDK, etc. All pointing to poor designs. These are MAJOR issues, not some recall for a rattle!

These all had to crop up in the mileage testing. It appears more and more like this model was rushed to market. I'm willing to say Porsche bet on the larger tolerance P car owners seem to have regarding major faults and repairs and took a gamble and released this car not ready. (Gotta keep the #1 profit automaker status)!

The only thing that should satisfy all of us is FULL DISCLOSURE from Porsche on all of these things and a plan to resolve them for every owner....

doubleurx

Well FWIW, the majority of us GT3 owners have had zero issues so far. Other than the original stop sale, my GT3 has been flawless.

We only hear of the failures on this thread which everyone should realize is a very small percentage of the overall cars out there. I've still got several years of warranty left, so I'm not to worried about anything yet. Hopefully in that time we can narrow down the issue and get all these amazing cars to be as flawless as possible for everyone.