How many 15-16 gt3's have engine replaced?
09-01-2016, 01:13 AM
#1516
Rennlist Member
I believe Porsche just showed their hand!!!
What is the difference in track use and street use in this circumstance? The number of engine revolutions in a given (shorter) amount of time. Take one half of those revolutions and that is how many times the camshafts revolved 360°.
What am i saying? I'm suggesting that whatever Porsche are doing to solve this problem, its all about kicking the can (problem) down the road and hopefully out of the warranty period. Track use means that the engine probably was used at higher RPM over a shorter amount of time, therefore the road got shorter.
In this situation, I would ask the dealer for a print out of the ECU logged data. It will show the max RPM, Temps etc, and the time the engine was used and at each RPM. If you stayed within the manufacturers limits on all parameters, then ask what is the difference. The problem exists regardless of use. The problem has nothing to do or is caused by track use "v" street use, temps or any other engine parameter. Its a fault in design and is created by engine revolutions. The only difference in high engine speed and low engine speed is the number of engine revolutions is the same given time. More RPM's the higher the wear rate in the same given time, accelerated wear, the higher the probability the problem with surface within the warranty period.
The problem is going to happen, track use just shortened the road Porsche wish to kick the can down.
This is why I believe Porsche just showed their intention.
What is the difference in track use and street use in this circumstance? The number of engine revolutions in a given (shorter) amount of time. Take one half of those revolutions and that is how many times the camshafts revolved 360°.
What am i saying? I'm suggesting that whatever Porsche are doing to solve this problem, its all about kicking the can (problem) down the road and hopefully out of the warranty period. Track use means that the engine probably was used at higher RPM over a shorter amount of time, therefore the road got shorter.
In this situation, I would ask the dealer for a print out of the ECU logged data. It will show the max RPM, Temps etc, and the time the engine was used and at each RPM. If you stayed within the manufacturers limits on all parameters, then ask what is the difference. The problem exists regardless of use. The problem has nothing to do or is caused by track use "v" street use, temps or any other engine parameter. Its a fault in design and is created by engine revolutions. The only difference in high engine speed and low engine speed is the number of engine revolutions is the same given time. More RPM's the higher the wear rate in the same given time, accelerated wear, the higher the probability the problem with surface within the warranty period.
The problem is going to happen, track use just shortened the road Porsche wish to kick the can down.
This is why I believe Porsche just showed their intention.
09-01-2016, 01:25 AM
#1518
Race Director
I know I sound like a Porsche apologist, but I want to wait and see how this plays out. I am concerned that PAG isn't just fixing the issue, but maybe they just need a little push. Fingers crossed for Chris!
09-01-2016, 01:50 AM
#1520
Rennlist Member
Apologies, I think I may have confused this. I think I was referring to this clause in page 2 of the same booklet you mention...
09-01-2016, 03:06 AM
#1522
Basic Sponsor
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updates on the fix for this issue.
parts are finishing design now that the lead engineer is back from vacation (the swiss know how to vacation). We'll be taking my valve covers off to measure a few bits to confirm sizing and placement and then off to the mill!
Unfortunately for those of us that the issue has yet to occur, Porsche may be showing their hand and saving money that the mothership is spending on fines... I hope not, but I'm planning on having to go it alone.
Will likely re ring my smokey 2014 at some point as well...
parts are finishing design now that the lead engineer is back from vacation (the swiss know how to vacation). We'll be taking my valve covers off to measure a few bits to confirm sizing and placement and then off to the mill!
Unfortunately for those of us that the issue has yet to occur, Porsche may be showing their hand and saving money that the mothership is spending on fines... I hope not, but I'm planning on having to go it alone.
Will likely re ring my smokey 2014 at some point as well...
__________________
Dundon Motorsports
Gig Harbor, WA
253-200-4454
jamie@dundonmotorsports.com
www.dundonmotorsports.com
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Dundon Motorsports
Gig Harbor, WA
253-200-4454
jamie@dundonmotorsports.com
www.dundonmotorsports.com
Facebook.com/dundonmotorsports
Instagram @dundon_motorsports
09-01-2016, 04:20 AM
#1523
Rennlist Member
That's curious. My book is for GT3 and yours is for RS. Nothing sinister Im sure just a small omission?
Jamie, really looking forward to your work with the cams/followers. You must start a new thread to document when you finally delve in there...
Jamie, really looking forward to your work with the cams/followers. You must start a new thread to document when you finally delve in there...
09-01-2016, 07:24 AM
#1525
Rennlist Member
Exactly my point to Porsche, the fact that the CEL occurred on the track is purely coincidental/bad luck. The damaged caused to the valve lifters is obviously caused over an extended period of time not just in a few laps on the track.
09-01-2016, 07:27 AM
#1526
Rennlist Member
I just can't see how I don't comply with this clause because I took my car in for a track inspection at Porsche and as recommended by Porsche.
09-01-2016, 09:08 AM
#1528
Rennlist Member
Like someone has been blowing smoke up our nose while we weren't watching? We were all so high from the fall out from "stop sale" we didn't realise they had done a "switcharoo" and removed the track-side warranty from the 2015/16 GT3/RS cars manuals. All we recall is AP sound bytes about 9000 rpm, Shut up and Drive and your covered on track LOL! Imagine. Kidding, Im sure its not like that...
09-01-2016, 10:11 AM
#1529
Race Director
Chris, if you look in your warranty booklet does it mention an arbitration process? My warranty book in the U.S. does, and it includes contact information as well.
09-01-2016, 10:45 AM
#1530
Banned
This warranty denial boggles the mind. As already mentioned, it's an ominous sign about PAG's estimates of the frequency of these problems and about how they plan to deal with them going forward. Perhaps they already realized and calculated that giving that many fresh tops and/or engines under warranty ("for free") will be prohibitively costly so they go to Plan B: Deny responsibility and hope for the best. If so, Chris' case sets the precedent.
Looks like the PTS 911R premium may have just fallen from $600k to $550k. j/k
Looks like the PTS 911R premium may have just fallen from $600k to $550k. j/k