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Joker. They have removed the third radiator Slot on the top of the bumper. Maybe this is why they need the larger front spat urge because the have done away with third unit and are testing a single larger flow unit?
AP said minor revisions for gen 2 GT3. Evolution rather then revolution. Given most 991 GT3/RS owners already unwitting test pilot for 9A1 motorsports engine I think this could be the case. Mild tweaks only. We may not see body in white changes but I think we will see new front and rear bumper, rear lights, wheel design, door gable change (aka 91.2), wing design and of course some interior changes including PCM. Lastly is the question of MT offer. If 911R has this then no reason why not as 911R will all be built and delivered at least 12 months before 991.2 GT3 customer cars roll off the line.
For me bigger question is how to improve performance with NA platform between generations. For GT3,it is easy, move to 4.0L and 500 bhp. For RS it is much more difficult. many changes already incorporated in 991.1 RS including very expensive low volume components and materials but the performance delta suggests only 5s on the Ring (not yet verified but SportAuto test would suggest 4s is true. Assume retaining 4.0L and 525 BHP where else is there to go? aero, no. Tyres/wheels no. Transmission,no. Maybe turbo?
Just some more thoughts after looking at these photos a little more.
The splitter is definitely different. It does not stick out as far forward as the GT3, and it is thin in profile (definitely thinner than the RS).
Also it does not extend up the front wheel arch very high. This is interesting given the "hierarchy" of the RS where the black plastic extends up to the side indicators, and the "lesser" GT3 which only extends to below the side indicators. If we follow this logic, and assuming this is the final form, one might reasonably assume this car is "lower" than the GT3, but clearly of the same family (i.e. a Motorsport derived car, not one of the "regular" 911s, which do not have this wrap around splitter).
Recall, the previous 911R mules that were spotted included this modified GT3 splitter, cut shorter and thinner. The splitter on the current mystery car seems to approximate this hack-sawed version at least a little bit imo.
Also, notice the front indicator lights appear to be different than either the .1 or even .2 (which have a continuous strip which turns all amber when the turn signal is lit). Despite the two rectangular patches of plastic that appear to be riveted to the bumper on the mystery car, it still does not look like we are seeing a long continuous strip of indicator light (you can see only a small section turns amber when the indicator is lit). Is this more in keeping with the small indicators like the 911R from 1967? (FWIW, I would have expected the 991.2 GT3 and RS to have similar strip indicator and DRLs like the .2 base Carrera models, just like the 991.1 versions resemble each other.)
All these interesting features might suggest this could be a 911R mule we're seeing. ???
Finally, what do these two (four if counting both sides) riveted rectangular patches hide in terms of design on the air intakes? I'm guessing the shape of the intakes will be a little more like the GT4.
Also, notice the centre locks do not say "GT3" on them.
But all of this is pure wild speculation on my part!!! Insert large grain of salt here!!
Last edited by <3mph; 02-09-2016 at 05:33 AM.
Reason: moved parenthesis
Love your work by the way! Makes sense that this could be the 911R. The bumper does away with headlamp washers curiously but this would be a detail that would have to be introduced on production versions for legislative reasons.
If the rumoured 270k price tag is correct the 911R will have to do better than just a MT and 4.0L. There is only so much weight to take and it will need to differentiate itself a bit more visually so this could be a clue...
jo_ker, very interesting comparison to the TT styling on the front bumper. Only thing in my mind that argues against this being a turbo is lack of side intakes and rear fender intercooler exhaust vents.
Your observation about the exhaust is very keen. To me, this suggests either the rear bumper or muffler tips are not the final version for whatever this car will be. I don't think Porsche would leave this much room otherwise, since it looks a little sloppy IMHO. I'm guessing the rear bumper will also be modified. If they're going to bother remake the front bumper, they will probably redo the back one too.
Again, wild conjecture from me. (But it's fun to guess!!!)
good stuff lessthan3mph! thank you!
you could be right that there will may also follow another rear bumper - and thats the reason.
macca, exactly the same "minor changes 991.2 GT3+RS" you are saying i heard too - but nearly a year ago.
it´s still the content of my bedtime-prayers.
but nevertheless i guess the board is speaking like this:
1) absolut bottom line net profit on GT cars is not interesting - they are earning money but no fortune for implementing GT models in their hudge and complex process.
2) what the std 991.2 buyer would think and how the salesguys can argue: if at the 991.2 model line the GT3 models are again N/A? This would be a statement that the regular line is not that Sporty etc. But this is what Porsche is presenting in their marketing. we have to accept that Porsch is making GT cars mainly to sell more normal 911, Macan, Cayennes,... to build/create/push the brand.
3) (again) no advantage in terms of laptimes - against 650s, 488gtb, M4GTS, etc without getting minimum 50hp and/or 150nm more compared to the 991.1GT3/RS.
Macca, I also noticed the lack of washer tips, thanks for pointing that out. Although I do recall seeing some cars without them (standard lights), I'm not sure it is an option with PDLS or LEDs. So maybe there will be a lightweight headlight option with no nipples? (Lightweight = 911R ???)
Macca, I also noticed the lack of washer tips, thanks for pointing that out. Although I do recall seeing some cars without them (standard lights), I'm not sure it is an option with PDLS or LEDs. So maybe there will be a lightweight headlight option with no nipples?
That's interesting. I understood in Europe they were required for all HID headlight equipped cars by legislation? However for 991 GT3 you could not say no even if you were ROW. A shame because I don't like them and never used them once, also on my 993 they look ugly and I don't use them.
Joker. I agree PAG make no money from 991 GT3. By my calculation by the time they sort out all the E engines the full fiasco from stop sale including the forward warranty liability they are holding on their books is over 220 million Euro (includes compensation, dealer labour, replacement engine and freight and any taxes based on estimated 1400 E engines) which I would estimate is 57k Euro per vehicle produced (3800 units worldwide).
so I agree the GT line has not been profitable this time and we don't yet know durability of MA175 G series and MA176 RS engine.
My gut feel is PAG are close to getting ultimate reliability for these engines. The last few months development with the GT3 R race car has taught them lots and this will continue throughout the season. These changes will incorporate into the production GT3/RS 2017 & 2018. PAG have too much invested in the engine architecture to make radical changes.
1.2 GT3/RS need to be mild evolution using existing hardware and finally getting a return on all this painful development. Maybe also another 15% price rise to keep the bank of VWAG full up of schedules for fines and regulatory bottom snaking near on the horizon lol!
I don't really believe we will see anything large in terms of performance difference from the next generation of these cars. MT may be an option for the GT3but that won't make it quicker.
In terms of taking on the competition (488, 675 etc) PAG have one simple logical card they have not yet played which will set the balance of the world right again....GT2RS....
jo_ker, thanks. That is consistent with the last generation of RS too.
Originally Posted by jbigelow
The 997.2 GT3 RS I own was specced with lightweight headlights.... Hence no xenon or nipples/headlight washers and no heated washer lines.
If they're going so far as to drop the fancy headlights just to get rid of the washer system with its lines electronics etc, and this is the R we're talking about, then it stands to reason the R could be quite light.
Is this what the front bumper design might look like??? (air intakes shown in red, indicators in orange)
Nice work. Probably close. But a bit boring I think. The loss if the third radiator slot would be a shame I think as its a Gat signature cue. However maybe that's the point as the 911R is not a GT branded car.....,.
.....,has anyone wondered that the 911R may just be a special 991 with MT and 3.8 9a1 X55 upgrade and some bespoke stuff inside and out with lowered weight but not based on GT car engine...same like the sport classic was....wouldn't that be a shock!!
Macca, I think there's room for the 3rd radiator slot. So you may very well be right they'll retain it. For some reason, I was thinking more along GT4 styling lines. Plus, I was trying to remove as much material as possible (larger intakes with less bits in between) to cut weight???
As for engine on the 911R, a few fairly well connected folks seem to think 4.0 L from RS. I don't believe this will be a GTS equivalent. It does not fit with the ethos and history of the 1967 911R to put anything but the most powerful engine in it.
BTW, I really hope you get an allocation for a 911R and decide to take it. I'd love to hear your thoughts if and when you take delivery. I thoroughly enjoyed and highly valued your perspective on the GT3 when it first arrived and you chronicled your ED trip! I'm sure you'd do a superb job with the 911R too!
Just some more thoughts after looking at these photos a little more.
The splitter is definitely different. It does not stick out as far forward as the GT3, and it is thin in profile (definitely thinner than the RS).
Also it does not extend up the front wheel arch very high. This is interesting given the "hierarchy" of the RS where the black plastic extends up to the side indicators, and the "lesser" GT3 which only extends to below the side indicators. If we follow this logic, and assuming this is the final form, one might reasonably assume this car is "lower" than the GT3, but clearly of the same family (i.e. a Motorsport derived car, not one of the "regular" 911s, which do not have this wrap around splitter).
Recall, the previous 911R mules that were spotted included this modified GT3 splitter, cut shorter and thinner. The splitter on the current mystery car seems to approximate this hack-sawed version at least a little bit imo.
Also, notice the front indicator lights appear to be different than either the .1 or even .2 (which have a continuous strip which turns all amber when the turn signal is lit). Despite the two rectangular patches of plastic that appear to be riveted to the bumper on the mystery car, it still does not look like we are seeing a long continuous strip of indicator light (you can see only a small section turns amber when the indicator is lit). Is this more in keeping with the small indicators like the 911R from 1967? (FWIW, I would have expected the 991.2 GT3 and RS to have similar strip indicator and DRLs like the .2 base Carrera models, just like the 991.1 versions resemble each other.)
All these interesting features might suggest this could be a 911R mule we're seeing. ???
Finally, what do these two (four if counting both sides) riveted rectangular patches hide in terms of design on the air intakes? I'm guessing the shape of the intakes will be a little more like the GT4.
Also, notice the centre locks do not say "GT3" on them.
But all of this is pure wild speculation on my part!!! Insert large grain of salt here!!
02-09-2016, 04:05 AM
