Why no GT3 RS for me, why try to sell me things I dont want-venting
12-27-2015, 04:34 AM
#46
Racer
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Originally Posted by CAlexio
i had never heard of "Supreme" brand.. i must be really out of the loop.
12-27-2015, 06:09 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
I don't get why so many people bash Porsche on the assumption they are deliberately limiting production of cars like the RS. As AP has mentioned numerous times, it is limited by production capacity. While every GT3 and GT3 RS starts life on the production line, every one gets pulled off and gets a bunch of stuff completed by hand by the Motorsport group then tested before getting shipped. Production of cars that are partially hand built like this just cannot be easily scaled up. Production can be easily extended, which Porsche might do, but not easily ramped up.
12-27-2015, 10:47 AM
#48
I think if someone wants something bad enough they'll pay for it if the funds are available - simple market psychology. The 991 RS is for sale, but at an obscene price. Is it worth it? Personal decision. These cars are available. I went through this pain trying to get a CGT not too long ago. Walked away on two different cars. It wasn't worth the money to me that were they were asking. No remorse.
Can RS production be doubled? Of course it can. Can everyone who wants an RS get one in due time? Sure. But Porsche won't play that game for reasons no one outside them is sure of.
I have 0, zero, nada, interest in any 991 GT car, and won't get the 991R since a chance of that car being for sale to me is also zero. My reasons are my coveted manual, I don't go to the track anymore, and I don't care about track times. So I'm chasing fun manual cars with their own crazy price curves. Try swallowing paying over MSRP on older cars...
Buy what you want / can - life is very short.
Can RS production be doubled? Of course it can. Can everyone who wants an RS get one in due time? Sure. But Porsche won't play that game for reasons no one outside them is sure of.
I have 0, zero, nada, interest in any 991 GT car, and won't get the 991R since a chance of that car being for sale to me is also zero. My reasons are my coveted manual, I don't go to the track anymore, and I don't care about track times. So I'm chasing fun manual cars with their own crazy price curves. Try swallowing paying over MSRP on older cars...
Buy what you want / can - life is very short.
12-27-2015, 11:10 AM
#49
Nordschleife Master
PAG will continue to pump out RS's for a while longer. This time last year everyone, even the "cleaning lady" was saying 3's were done at the end of December/14. Well look what happened since. They not only kept making more 15's, so called stopped PTS, only to put out 30 more special ones, and now there's even 16's being produced, go figure. My "cleaning lady" says, we will continue to see more RS's trickle out. Hang in there boys, he who wants one will get one.
12-27-2015, 03:16 PM
#52
I don't get why so many people bash Porsche on the assumption they are deliberately limiting production of cars like the RS. As AP has mentioned numerous times, it is limited by production capacity. While every GT3 and GT3 RS starts life on the production line, every one gets pulled off and gets a bunch of stuff completed by hand by the Motorsport group then tested before getting shipped. Production of cars that are partially hand built like this just cannot be easily scaled up. Production can be easily extended, which Porsche might do, but not easily ramped up.
12-27-2015, 04:20 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Special stuff does slow down the line if there is a manual step (special windows, etc), but the cars do not get "pulled off" or finished by the Motorsport group based on what I observed. The special parts just arrive by their little robot part cart as per any other car on the line. I'm sure they don't want the line stuffed with slow downs, but there were actually quite a few RS' on the line in September (not standard GT3s, I noted). I also note that there are other models that require extra time (Boxster Spyder), so there are other models that introduce a similar pause and they try to make these regular so the overall line flow remains consistent (effectively that station becomes a double length station - the line is constantly moving).
12-27-2015, 05:26 PM
#54
Nordschleife Master
When did you put your deposit down?
Mine was three years ago. My gt3 was on order for 2 years. I've had a deposit on a PTS gt4 for 2 years and I won't see that car until spring, if ever.
I have deposits on both 991.2 gt cars, special edition cars, last na cars and 960 (if it comes).
Don't whine if you're not prepared to play the game.
Mine was three years ago. My gt3 was on order for 2 years. I've had a deposit on a PTS gt4 for 2 years and I won't see that car until spring, if ever.
I have deposits on both 991.2 gt cars, special edition cars, last na cars and 960 (if it comes).
Don't whine if you're not prepared to play the game.
12-27-2015, 05:53 PM
#55
Drifting
+1, if I am late to the game it's basically my fault. I Can't come at the end of cycle and demand they build me a car. Come on dude. Put your deposit on the next one.
12-27-2015, 06:13 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Well explained
OP what is your history of ownership? you can't really expect to roll up on the latest and greatest and get what you want because you have a bit of money in the bank. plenty of others like that in the world and not enough supply. the exclusivity is literally party of the selling proposition.
OP what is your history of ownership? you can't really expect to roll up on the latest and greatest and get what you want because you have a bit of money in the bank. plenty of others like that in the world and not enough supply. the exclusivity is literally party of the selling proposition.
OP, what follows is not advice, it is idle commentary based on personal observation of luxury commerce.
Producing one fewer car than there are buyers for it does work; the tough part is getting people to want the car in both the primary and secondary markets. Getting people on the ladder with pedestrian models in the hope of having some climb towards limited editions while profiting from them immediately does work. It's an entirely aspirational business model, and for each one you lose through disgust there are at least three others willing to take the bait, especially if the product is genuinely good and the brand delivers on its promises.
Much depends on getting dealer attention, and it is hard for people to advise about specific dealers without knowing where you are. I have only a single experience of Porsche dealers, but significant experience with those of some competing and complementary or analogous brands. From what I have seen, manufacturers and even importers will rarely get involved except with customers known to be special: friends of the brand, celebs of the desirable sort, squeaky wheels with media connections, etc.
Allocations on interesting cars are intentionally limited, especially for dealers outside major urban areas. Most allocations (for the brands with which I am familiar) go to those dealers in the biggest markets, usually FL, TX, Metro-NY, Chicagoland, and CA. Allocations for truly interesting cars will go first to those people buying from and servicing multiple purchases with the dealership. If you own 5+ Iso Griffos and buy one per year, you will be the Iso Griffo dealer's early choice for the latest, greatest, and rarest...especially if you show the cars off, make the dealer sound good, and are available to help their business. If you have been after a Griffo Speziale and you get offered one for the first time, take it, even if someone else specced it and then refused delivery. Scratch their backs or your itch will be ignored.
This is first and foremost a business and selling a single car at MSRP is rarely the goal. With things like Speziales, only through a really major miscalculation will they make more of them than they can sell. Don't be wholly surprised if it is broadly hinted you should buy one of those OSCAs they are having a hard time moving in order to get you on the Speziale list. Don't underestimate the value of buying a CPO you know is well over original MSRP as a show of future good faith. Similarly, it is often clear that if you outright buy that super limited edition seven figure halo Bizzarini from them, they likely can get you that Speziale allocation immediately as well. Above all, buy from THEM, not brokers, private sellers, etc.
In other words, you climb a ladder. You don't usually begin on a high rung. The simplest way on is to buy something you want and will enjoy, and then either buy more of them regularly or trade them in for newer models regularly (or both) with a longer term plan of being considered for the rarer stuff as it comes out. Or walk in with a cash offer on that halo car they want sold out fast.
Producing one fewer car than there are buyers for it does work; the tough part is getting people to want the car in both the primary and secondary markets. Getting people on the ladder with pedestrian models in the hope of having some climb towards limited editions while profiting from them immediately does work. It's an entirely aspirational business model, and for each one you lose through disgust there are at least three others willing to take the bait, especially if the product is genuinely good and the brand delivers on its promises.
Much depends on getting dealer attention, and it is hard for people to advise about specific dealers without knowing where you are. I have only a single experience of Porsche dealers, but significant experience with those of some competing and complementary or analogous brands. From what I have seen, manufacturers and even importers will rarely get involved except with customers known to be special: friends of the brand, celebs of the desirable sort, squeaky wheels with media connections, etc.
Allocations on interesting cars are intentionally limited, especially for dealers outside major urban areas. Most allocations (for the brands with which I am familiar) go to those dealers in the biggest markets, usually FL, TX, Metro-NY, Chicagoland, and CA. Allocations for truly interesting cars will go first to those people buying from and servicing multiple purchases with the dealership. If you own 5+ Iso Griffos and buy one per year, you will be the Iso Griffo dealer's early choice for the latest, greatest, and rarest...especially if you show the cars off, make the dealer sound good, and are available to help their business. If you have been after a Griffo Speziale and you get offered one for the first time, take it, even if someone else specced it and then refused delivery. Scratch their backs or your itch will be ignored.
This is first and foremost a business and selling a single car at MSRP is rarely the goal. With things like Speziales, only through a really major miscalculation will they make more of them than they can sell. Don't be wholly surprised if it is broadly hinted you should buy one of those OSCAs they are having a hard time moving in order to get you on the Speziale list. Don't underestimate the value of buying a CPO you know is well over original MSRP as a show of future good faith. Similarly, it is often clear that if you outright buy that super limited edition seven figure halo Bizzarini from them, they likely can get you that Speziale allocation immediately as well. Above all, buy from THEM, not brokers, private sellers, etc.
In other words, you climb a ladder. You don't usually begin on a high rung. The simplest way on is to buy something you want and will enjoy, and then either buy more of them regularly or trade them in for newer models regularly (or both) with a longer term plan of being considered for the rarer stuff as it comes out. Or walk in with a cash offer on that halo car they want sold out fast.
I think this type of elitist ladder climbing nonsense is exactly what the OP is venting about.
I accept not being first and waiting for my chance to get my Porshe the "normal" way by putting my name on lists and waiting. Sometimes it doesn't work out like the RS, but oh well. There will always be used cars later or the money can be better spent on many other things like my family, investments or my favorite charities. It's just a car and a selfish need, you have to keep it in perspective.
12-27-2015, 07:19 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
When did you put your deposit down?
Mine was three years ago. My gt3 was on order for 2 years. I've had a deposit on a PTS gt4 for 2 years and I won't see that car until spring, if ever.
I have deposits on both 991.2 gt cars, special edition cars, last na cars and 960 (if it comes).
Don't whine if you're not prepared to play the game.
Mine was three years ago. My gt3 was on order for 2 years. I've had a deposit on a PTS gt4 for 2 years and I won't see that car until spring, if ever.
I have deposits on both 991.2 gt cars, special edition cars, last na cars and 960 (if it comes).
Don't whine if you're not prepared to play the game.
12-27-2015, 08:05 PM
#59
It would be a very sad thing indeed if Porsche fully adopts the Italian mentality that you don't really own the car, you are merely its custodian and the manufacturer has some sort of rights in it forever. The only way to prevent that is to somehow stop everyone from allowing the sellers to call the tune. If you figure out a way, I will be happy to lend my support figuratively and actually. Until then, it remains a very irritating pay to play situation and anyone who can pay - even once in their life - is extremely fortunate and should try to bear that in mind. If you choose to pay, be sure to enjoy the thing because it is, after all, just a car. It's only 'alive' when in use. Placing them in plastic bubbles or up on walls destroys the cars and, eventually, the souls of their owners.
12-27-2015, 08:14 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Jamie140
When did you put your deposit down?
Mine was three years ago. My gt3 was on order for 2 years. I've had a deposit on a PTS gt4 for 2 years and I won't see that car until spring, if ever.
I have deposits on both 991.2 gt cars, special edition cars, last na cars and 960 (if it comes).
Don't whine if you're not prepared to play the game.
Mine was three years ago. My gt3 was on order for 2 years. I've had a deposit on a PTS gt4 for 2 years and I won't see that car until spring, if ever.
I have deposits on both 991.2 gt cars, special edition cars, last na cars and 960 (if it comes).
Don't whine if you're not prepared to play the game.
Lists, whatever; in Houston, it's all about total revenue per customer that sets the allocation order at all times. Not a bad way to do it from business perspective. But can be frustrating for a guy that thinks leaving a cc deposit for 2 years has some actual spot in a line. That line is reshuffled all the time.
Last edited by Jrtaylor9; 12-27-2015 at 08:51 PM.