Front of GT3 Destroyed by Deer Impact
11-16-2015, 12:09 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
+1 - need to see the picts
Australia also has this for roos, maybe there is something similar you could do for deer? https://www.shuroo.com.au/
Australia also has this for roos, maybe there is something similar you could do for deer? https://www.shuroo.com.au/
The kangaroos are crazy dangerous, no wonder they have caged Camry's and most trucks have a guard in from the of half their windshield. I hit two in a 5 week road trip but I could easily have it 20... Some areas there is roadkill (wazzer) every 100M and it's all BIG road kill...
11-16-2015, 12:26 PM
#47
Shuroo works?
The kangaroos are crazy dangerous, no wonder they have caged Camry's and most trucks have a guard in from the of half their windshield. I hit two in a 5 week road trip but I could easily have it 20... Some areas there is roadkill (wazzer) every 100M and it's all BIG road kill...
The kangaroos are crazy dangerous, no wonder they have caged Camry's and most trucks have a guard in from the of half their windshield. I hit two in a 5 week road trip but I could easily have it 20... Some areas there is roadkill (wazzer) every 100M and it's all BIG road kill...
11-16-2015, 12:52 PM
#48
11-16-2015, 04:10 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
I saw the aftermath. Sorry to see your car end up like that. I had resisted going to Summit for many years because I knew this could happen. This was my first visit there in my M3. I had just gone through turn one chasing my buddy in his 6GT3 and by the time we got to 3 there was a black flag. I must have missed that deer by seconds.
Not sure I will go back now. Whilst I had two great days of driving and managed to get down to a respectable time in a 4 door sedan, seeing that pretty car all tore up like that made me put the car in the trailer and go home.
Not sure I will go back now. Whilst I had two great days of driving and managed to get down to a respectable time in a 4 door sedan, seeing that pretty car all tore up like that made me put the car in the trailer and go home.
11-16-2015, 04:25 PM
#51
Drifting
I saw the aftermath. Sorry to see your car end up like that. I had resisted going to Summit for many years because I knew this could happen. This was my first visit there in my M3. I had just gone through turn one chasing my buddy in his 6GT3 and by the time we got to 3 there was a black flag. I must have missed that deer by seconds.
Not sure I will go back now. Whilst I had two great days of driving and managed to get down to a respectable time in a 4 door sedan, seeing that pretty car all tore up like that made me put the car in the trailer and go home.
Not sure I will go back now. Whilst I had two great days of driving and managed to get down to a respectable time in a 4 door sedan, seeing that pretty car all tore up like that made me put the car in the trailer and go home.
If you don't mind could you share your Youtube channel? I can't seem to find it and I'm excited to check out all the excellent video I've heard about.
Thanks,
Jeff
11-16-2015, 04:29 PM
#52
I saw the aftermath. Sorry to see your car end up like that. I had resisted going to Summit for many years because I knew this could happen. This was my first visit there in my M3. I had just gone through turn one chasing my buddy in his 6GT3 and by the time we got to 3 there was a black flag. I must have missed that deer by seconds. Not sure I will go back now. Whilst I had two great days of driving and managed to get down to a respectable time in a 4 door sedan, seeing that pretty car all tore up like that made me put the car in the trailer and go home.
Deer are normally very predictable. Taking the same path almost every day.
11-16-2015, 04:45 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Matt thanks for the excellent instruction, I learned a lot. Practice Practice Practice!!! My son is eager to hear all the tips you gave me, I have a call with him tonight to do a brain dump.
If you don't mind could you share your Youtube channel? I can't seem to find it and I'm excited to check out all the excellent video I've heard about.
Thanks,
Jeff
If you don't mind could you share your Youtube channel? I can't seem to find it and I'm excited to check out all the excellent video I've heard about.
Thanks,
Jeff
You can get to my channel searching for user 'mrmmuller' or follow this link ->
https://www.youtube.com/user/mrmmuller.
I will have some new video up tomorrow from the M3 at Summit, including the session that had the deer. I have looked for it in the video and can't see it.
11-16-2015, 04:54 PM
#54
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For me, it comes down to risk management, so let me give that a try below (please check my reasoning and math!).
It's hard to say what the chance of hitting a deer at SP is, because that data may not be collected carefully, and it certainly isn't widely shared. The incident where the deer disintegrated last year became well known because it was captured on video and it was gruesome. In terms of damage to the car, I'd say the incident from Saturday was just as bad, but few people apparently would have known about if I didn't start this thread.
So, to roughly estimate the risk, I've done about 90 days at SP main, and I can recall at least 4 deer hits during those days, but maybe there were up to 8, so let's go with 6. Assuming roughly 100 drivers per day, we then have about 6 hits in 9000 driver-days, or about 1500 driver-days per hit. In other words, on average, you might expect to hit a deer once every 1500 days you do at SP main. Doing a probability calc, that means about a 7% chance of hitting a deer at least once if you do 100 days at SP main.
In most cases, the damage to a car from a deer hit is pretty bad. As far as injury, I don't know of any substantial injuries due to deer hits when I was at the track. Looking at data from deer hits on the road, seems that there are roughly 150 human fatalities per 1.5 million deer hits, so a 1/10,000 chance of fatality per hit - which is pretty low - but of course the chance of injury would be much higher. BUT, the average speed of deer hits on the road is say 50 mph, whereas the speed of a deer hit on track could easily be double that or more, and the energy of the impact is proportional to the speed squared, so the average energy of a deer hit on track might be around 3 to 9 times higher than on the road - which is a massive difference! So the chance of injury or fatality when hitting a deer on track would also be much higher, but I can't currently estimate how much higher.
My conclusion for now is that I'll still go to SP main because it's my home track, and I otherwise like the track, but will go less often than I used to in order to reduce my risk exposure, until this deer issue is addressed.
It's hard to say what the chance of hitting a deer at SP is, because that data may not be collected carefully, and it certainly isn't widely shared. The incident where the deer disintegrated last year became well known because it was captured on video and it was gruesome. In terms of damage to the car, I'd say the incident from Saturday was just as bad, but few people apparently would have known about if I didn't start this thread.
So, to roughly estimate the risk, I've done about 90 days at SP main, and I can recall at least 4 deer hits during those days, but maybe there were up to 8, so let's go with 6. Assuming roughly 100 drivers per day, we then have about 6 hits in 9000 driver-days, or about 1500 driver-days per hit. In other words, on average, you might expect to hit a deer once every 1500 days you do at SP main. Doing a probability calc, that means about a 7% chance of hitting a deer at least once if you do 100 days at SP main.
In most cases, the damage to a car from a deer hit is pretty bad. As far as injury, I don't know of any substantial injuries due to deer hits when I was at the track. Looking at data from deer hits on the road, seems that there are roughly 150 human fatalities per 1.5 million deer hits, so a 1/10,000 chance of fatality per hit - which is pretty low - but of course the chance of injury would be much higher. BUT, the average speed of deer hits on the road is say 50 mph, whereas the speed of a deer hit on track could easily be double that or more, and the energy of the impact is proportional to the speed squared, so the average energy of a deer hit on track might be around 3 to 9 times higher than on the road - which is a massive difference! So the chance of injury or fatality when hitting a deer on track would also be much higher, but I can't currently estimate how much higher.
My conclusion for now is that I'll still go to SP main because it's my home track, and I otherwise like the track, but will go less often than I used to in order to reduce my risk exposure, until this deer issue is addressed.
11-16-2015, 05:29 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
For me, it comes down to risk management, so let me give that a try below (please check my reasoning and math!).
It's hard to say what the chance of hitting a deer at SP is, because that data may not be collected carefully, and it certainly isn't widely shared. The incident where the deer disintegrated last year became well known because it was captured on video and it was gruesome. In terms of damage to the car, I'd say the incident from Saturday was just as bad, but few people apparently would have known about if I didn't start this thread.
So, to roughly estimate the risk, I've done about 90 days at SP main, and I can recall at least 4 deer hits during those days, but maybe there were up to 8, so let's go with 6. Assuming roughly 100 drivers per day, we then have about 6 hits in 9000 driver-days, or about 1500 driver-days per hit. In other words, on average, you might expect to hit a deer once every 1500 days you do at SP main. Doing a probability calc, that means about a 7% chance of hitting a deer at least once if you do 100 days at SP main.
In most cases, the damage to a car from a deer hit is pretty bad. As far as injury, I don't know of any substantial injuries due to deer hits when I was at the track. Looking at data from deer hits on the road, seems that there are roughly 150 human fatalities per 1.5 million deer hits, so a 1/10,000 chance of fatality per hit - which is pretty low - but of course the chance of injury would be much higher. BUT, the average speed of deer hits on the road is say 50 mph, whereas the speed of a deer hit on track could easily be double that or more, and the energy of the impact is proportional to the speed squared, so the average energy of a deer hit on track might be around 3 to 9 times higher than on the road - which is a massive difference! So the chance of injury or fatality when hitting a deer on track would also be much higher, but I can't currently estimate how much higher.
My conclusion for now is that I'll still go to SP main because it's my home track, and I otherwise like the track, but will go less often than I used to in order to reduce my risk exposure, until this deer issue is addressed.
It's hard to say what the chance of hitting a deer at SP is, because that data may not be collected carefully, and it certainly isn't widely shared. The incident where the deer disintegrated last year became well known because it was captured on video and it was gruesome. In terms of damage to the car, I'd say the incident from Saturday was just as bad, but few people apparently would have known about if I didn't start this thread.
So, to roughly estimate the risk, I've done about 90 days at SP main, and I can recall at least 4 deer hits during those days, but maybe there were up to 8, so let's go with 6. Assuming roughly 100 drivers per day, we then have about 6 hits in 9000 driver-days, or about 1500 driver-days per hit. In other words, on average, you might expect to hit a deer once every 1500 days you do at SP main. Doing a probability calc, that means about a 7% chance of hitting a deer at least once if you do 100 days at SP main.
In most cases, the damage to a car from a deer hit is pretty bad. As far as injury, I don't know of any substantial injuries due to deer hits when I was at the track. Looking at data from deer hits on the road, seems that there are roughly 150 human fatalities per 1.5 million deer hits, so a 1/10,000 chance of fatality per hit - which is pretty low - but of course the chance of injury would be much higher. BUT, the average speed of deer hits on the road is say 50 mph, whereas the speed of a deer hit on track could easily be double that or more, and the energy of the impact is proportional to the speed squared, so the average energy of a deer hit on track might be around 3 to 9 times higher than on the road - which is a massive difference! So the chance of injury or fatality when hitting a deer on track would also be much higher, but I can't currently estimate how much higher.
My conclusion for now is that I'll still go to SP main because it's my home track, and I otherwise like the track, but will go less often than I used to in order to reduce my risk exposure, until this deer issue is addressed.
11-17-2015, 08:54 AM
#57
Burning Brakes
i was at the NASA-Midatlantic Fall Finale at Summit Main just the weekend before!
I was briefed about the potential for deer at the initial driver's meeting. Short of building a wall, I think it's virtually impossible to exclude wildlife.
That said, i am pretty sure Summit also runs a gun range / firearms traing center at the same campus, I'm sure they do alittle culling for time to time.
There was a sweet red 991 GT3 in group 1 at the NASA event....car was sweet sounding on track. driver was alittle hesitant tho.
I was briefed about the potential for deer at the initial driver's meeting. Short of building a wall, I think it's virtually impossible to exclude wildlife.
That said, i am pretty sure Summit also runs a gun range / firearms traing center at the same campus, I'm sure they do alittle culling for time to time.
There was a sweet red 991 GT3 in group 1 at the NASA event....car was sweet sounding on track. driver was alittle hesitant tho.
11-17-2015, 09:16 AM
#58
Three Wheelin'
Manifold as always I appreciate what you bring to RL and not to beat a dead DEER here but your risk calculation above is way off in my opinion. You are simply using existing roadway statistics to justify the risk in your mind but the data you are using shouldn't used for comparing track hits vs roadway hits. Using roadway incidents as your basis is not a good basis because we are talking about large variations in speed on track vs roadways with regards to fatalities. Also how about the risk that exists even if the deer doesn't hit you but simply strolls out on track with multiple cars well over 120 mph that are in a group....one of you is likely to have encounter an off to avoid hitting the other and that in itself carries tremendous risk at the speeds we are talking.
11-17-2015, 09:28 AM
#59
I couldn't disagree more....doing nothing because it's impossible to eliminate the chance completely of wildlife coming out on track is just chosen ignorance? A lot of things can be done to substantially reduce the risk. Many roadways in euro have fences that substantially reduce the events of wildlife coming out of no where, does it eliminate it all together no but I'll take a substantial reduction any day over nothing. Manifold as always I appreciate what you bring to RL and not to beat a dead DEER here but your risk calculation above is way off in my opinion. You are simply using existing roadway statistics to justify the risk in your mind but the data you are using shouldn't used for comparing track hits vs roadway hits. Using roadway incidents as your basis is not a good basis because we are talking about large variations in speed on track vs roadways with regards to fatalities. Also how about the risk that exists even if the deer doesn't hit you but simply strolls out on track with multiple cars well over 120 mph that are in a group....one of you is likely to have encounter an off to avoid hitting the other and that in itself carries tremendous risk at the speeds we are talking.
First thing I would do if I was a regular at this track would be to make sure the airbag does not go off in your face at 130+ mph.
And keep the steering wheel straight at anything smaller than a moose. Most casualties are because people try to maneuver around animals and flip their cars. Seen it first hand with a guy trying to save a pheasants life.
11-17-2015, 09:31 AM
#60
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Manifold as always I appreciate what you bring to RL and not to beat a dead DEER here but your risk calculation above is way off in my opinion. You are simply using existing roadway statistics to justify the risk in your mind but the data you are using shouldn't used for comparing track hits vs roadway hits. Using roadway incidents as your basis is not a good basis because we are talking about large variations in speed on track vs roadways with regards to fatalities. Also how about the risk that exists even if the deer doesn't hit you but simply strolls out on track with multiple cars well over 120 mph that are in a group....one of you is likely to have encounter an off to avoid hitting the other and that in itself carries tremendous risk at the speeds we are talking.
Looking at data from deer hits on the road, seems that there are roughly 150 human fatalities per 1.5 million deer hits, so a 1/10,000 chance of fatality per hit - which is pretty low - but of course the chance of injury would be much higher. BUT, the average speed of deer hits on the road is say 50 mph, whereas the speed of a deer hit on track could easily be double that or more, and the energy of the impact is proportional to the speed squared, so the average energy of a deer hit on track might be around 3 to 9 times higher than on the road - which is a massive difference! So the chance of injury or fatality when hitting a deer on track would also be much higher, but I can't currently estimate how much higher.
Also, I haven't heard of or seen any cases where deer just stroll across the track. In every case, they've darted across the track. Plus, experienced drivers should know not to swerve at high speed, and we teach the same to students, especially at SP because of the animals.I did the risk calculation without knowing how it would come out, not to justify a decision I had made in advance. My resulting decision is that I'm scaling back the amount of time I'm going to spend at SP until the deer issue is addressed, but not to the point of not going at all. I still consider fluids dumped by other cars to be a bigger risk, and that's a situation I encountered numerous times this season. Of course, we each have to make our own decisions based on our assessment of the risk (which varies with the driver, car, safety equipment, organization, run group, etc., not just the track) and our risk tolerance.