OT:911R
03-04-2016, 02:36 AM
#2056
Racer
This thread is starting to bring out some of our darker sides. It's sad to hear that contributors to our discussions have left or are considering leaving because of insensitive and hurtful outbursts. And I'm somewhat embarrassed to read a few of the comments that have been posted.
In my short experience with Porsche and RL, I have already met many wonderful people, including those I now call friends, some of whom are 918 owners (gasp!!). I can honestly say these 918 owners are die-hard enthusiasts who care as much about the brand, the cars, and the driver's experience as any of the great hard-core track guys, life long customers, collectors, and other devotees and fans whom I've also been fortunate to meet, but who might not own a 918.
I feel very lucky to have a GT3. In fact, I think owning any Porsche is a huge privilege. I do not consider it a slight to me in any way, shape, or form, if I am not able to get an allocation for a 911R from PAG / PCNA / Porsche Cars Canada Ltd / (name your region, al distributor here). Just like I couldn't get an allocation for an RS. Or a GT4. There will always be something beyond my reach. And I'm ok with that.
In my short experience with Porsche and RL, I have already met many wonderful people, including those I now call friends, some of whom are 918 owners (gasp!!). I can honestly say these 918 owners are die-hard enthusiasts who care as much about the brand, the cars, and the driver's experience as any of the great hard-core track guys, life long customers, collectors, and other devotees and fans whom I've also been fortunate to meet, but who might not own a 918.
I feel very lucky to have a GT3. In fact, I think owning any Porsche is a huge privilege. I do not consider it a slight to me in any way, shape, or form, if I am not able to get an allocation for a 911R from PAG / PCNA / Porsche Cars Canada Ltd / (name your region, al distributor here). Just like I couldn't get an allocation for an RS. Or a GT4. There will always be something beyond my reach. And I'm ok with that.
Well said...this thread has become quite interesting to say the least. Unless it was stolen from you, disliking others for what they have and you don't is very counter-productive. Someone will always have more $$, be better looking, smarter...have a "better" car. I am just so thankful to be able to enjoy this lovely earth, especially when the top is down, PSE on and above 6k RPM's!!
03-04-2016, 02:38 AM
#2057
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I'm feeling 918 pangs of guilt with all these complaints and I don't even have one. I think we have reached the "frowny face" icon status level on this thread.
03-04-2016, 02:50 AM
#2058
That's fine, but I don't want to live in that world. If I was you, I wouldn't either. I'm not going to get bitter about it - it's only a car and there are better ones. (Although obviously I think this one will be great). I've woken up this morning without the red mist of yesterday, but doesn't change anything.
I'm supposed going to the Porsche stand in Geneva next week, as a guest, to be shown a car I can't buy, surrounded by R adverts that say "here's our birthday present". I think I'll be passing by, without any canapés...
I'm supposed going to the Porsche stand in Geneva next week, as a guest, to be shown a car I can't buy, surrounded by R adverts that say "here's our birthday present". I think I'll be passing by, without any canapés...
03-04-2016, 02:58 AM
#2059
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That's fine, but I don't want to live in that world. If I was you, I wouldn't either. I'm not going to get bitter about it - it's only a car and there are better ones. (Although obviously I think this one will be great). I've woken up this morning without the red mist of yesterday, but doesn't change anything.
I'm supposed going to the Porsche stand in Geneva next week, as a guest, to be shown a car I can't buy, surrounded by R adverts that say "here's our birthday present". I think I'll be passing by, without any canapés...
I'm supposed going to the Porsche stand in Geneva next week, as a guest, to be shown a car I can't buy, surrounded by R adverts that say "here's our birthday present". I think I'll be passing by, without any canapés...
03-04-2016, 07:03 AM
#2061
Rennlist Member
Porsche originally was only going to make 600 911Rs, the number was raised to 991 when they realized the 918 buyers will likely all pick one up.
The 918 VIP program only applies to the PCNA market, so 297 cars, but for the rest of the world, there is no VIP program and at best a 918 owner will only get 1 car even if they have multiple 918s. So for their initial allocations, around 2-300 cars are going to non-918 owners, that's a big percentage, and in Porsche's eyes, fair enough.
But even without the 918 VIP program ever existed, do one think an average Joe have a better chance of getting one? Absolutely not, it will be the Wild Wild West, dubious dealers will gives cars to their buddy buddy friends or scam customers into buying unmovable cars on their lots for the promise of perhaps getting one.
Look deeper at the numbers and the hate towards 918 owners are unwarranted.
A lot of the US dealer owners are 918 owners, those guys will get the 911R, and very likely they WILL flip theirs for a major profit. They are the ones that should be hated as a dealer instead of as a 918 'owner'.
They will put on a fancy name like 'market adjustment'. Some of you have no problem paying that but have a problem paying the same amount to a private 918 owner that sells their car? Where is the logic in that?
Most private 918 owners are car nuts, many are also serial car buyer, they get into and out of cars, sometimes quickly, due to space reason or other valid ones, they might sell whatever at market price, it could be higher or lower than MSRP, what's wrong with that? Personally I think paying the mark up to a private entity is better than to a flipping dealer, who is basically in it for the profit and nothing else.
No offence to Geoff personally, but he is in the car business and he knows what's going on behind the scene. Some dealers will try to justify their actions by saying that they were forced to take up allocations for the 918 when the sale process was stalled, but one don't see them complaint now when they see they can have a lot of profit to be made at the expense of real Porsche enthusiasts.
The 918 VIP program only applies to the PCNA market, so 297 cars, but for the rest of the world, there is no VIP program and at best a 918 owner will only get 1 car even if they have multiple 918s. So for their initial allocations, around 2-300 cars are going to non-918 owners, that's a big percentage, and in Porsche's eyes, fair enough.
But even without the 918 VIP program ever existed, do one think an average Joe have a better chance of getting one? Absolutely not, it will be the Wild Wild West, dubious dealers will gives cars to their buddy buddy friends or scam customers into buying unmovable cars on their lots for the promise of perhaps getting one.
Look deeper at the numbers and the hate towards 918 owners are unwarranted.
A lot of the US dealer owners are 918 owners, those guys will get the 911R, and very likely they WILL flip theirs for a major profit. They are the ones that should be hated as a dealer instead of as a 918 'owner'.
They will put on a fancy name like 'market adjustment'. Some of you have no problem paying that but have a problem paying the same amount to a private 918 owner that sells their car? Where is the logic in that?
Most private 918 owners are car nuts, many are also serial car buyer, they get into and out of cars, sometimes quickly, due to space reason or other valid ones, they might sell whatever at market price, it could be higher or lower than MSRP, what's wrong with that? Personally I think paying the mark up to a private entity is better than to a flipping dealer, who is basically in it for the profit and nothing else.
No offence to Geoff personally, but he is in the car business and he knows what's going on behind the scene. Some dealers will try to justify their actions by saying that they were forced to take up allocations for the 918 when the sale process was stalled, but one don't see them complaint now when they see they can have a lot of profit to be made at the expense of real Porsche enthusiasts.
03-04-2016, 07:23 AM
#2062
My dealer purchased a 918 not because of wanted to flip it, but hes an avid car collector. He offered me is 911R allocation at MSRP if he can't get me one and I said no out of principal. This thread has actually made me less interested in Porsches simply because I don't like what the brand is starting to stand for now. I think I'll start to sell some and buy some different toys in the Spring.
03-04-2016, 08:17 AM
#2065
Back on topic - the allocation bs has gone on long enough. For those who want to discuss the car or are buying one.
List your entire spec, and explain your reasoning why you chose your options??
List your entire spec, and explain your reasoning why you chose your options??
03-04-2016, 08:31 AM
#2066
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If Porsche has people elbowing each other to try to get the R, like shoppers in the mall during the final days before Christmas, they seem to be doing a good job of creating demand for the car. But there's also the risk that Porsche will be perceived as openly catering to its most elite customers at the expense of its other customers, which could have a net negative effect on customer goodwill.
03-04-2016, 08:33 AM
#2067
I'm struggling to understand.
In about a year we can all buy pretty much the same car as the R. Remove the wing on your gen2 gt3 and swap the seat cushions.
It will most likely cost way less than the R.
In about a year we can all buy pretty much the same car as the R. Remove the wing on your gen2 gt3 and swap the seat cushions.
It will most likely cost way less than the R.
03-04-2016, 08:58 AM
#2068
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The steering feel will keep getting better. The suspension tuning will keep getting better. The sound of the cars won't become worse. Seems like weight is starting to plateau. Manual will be there if there's demand for it, and the awesome PDK will certainly stick around for the track cars (pun intended). The implementation of the turbos in the new engines seems to be really good, and once people get used to those nice torque curves, for the road cars, people may think twice about these NA engines which need to be wound way up to really shove the cars.
Rawer cars with shorter wheelbases, hydraulic steering, and NA engines with good torque below 4K rpm are gone, but I expect that Porsche's cars with the current general formula will generally be getting better over time, not worse. The R isn't the 'last chance' to get anything, nor were the 991.1 GT3 or GT4. There are good days ahead for those who have some patience.
