It's looking like rain at the track on Saturday. Thoughts on track days in the rain?
08-04-2015, 04:28 PM
#16
I adore the rain and make a point of going to my home track (MotorSport Ranch) when it rains. But it has super generous runoff. You must be more aware of where there is and is not runoff and be a bit more conservative near obstacles and other vehicles. Also see if a local can tell you the proper wet line - rarely is it a good idea to drive the dry line. Finally, in addition to being very smooth, it is even more important than ever to be very wary of significant brake or power application with any steering input.
Upside is that brake and tire wear go way down.
Upside is that brake and tire wear go way down.
08-05-2015, 12:09 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Drove at Cota for 2 days wet and had a blast. Have to be smooth!! Or car will just plow and not turn. Have fun and just know your run off and take ur easy. Oh and yes on the wet line. Cota was great but the last corner before straight had a very very slick braking zone. Hand to get 1 car length off side or car would not stop
08-05-2015, 12:59 AM
#18
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I did only 3 days in the rain with GT3 (which is actually a lot, given the drought here), but ~30 of my events back in Canada saw some kind of rain, hail or snow. I'd say it's worth doing - a great way to learn to be smoother, balance the car better and notice all the detail of the track at slower speed and a different line.
BUT few suggestions:
1. Leave ego at home. Forget lap times, that's a given. But even more than that, ignore if someone passes you in a slower car, even if you passed them before! This is really important - do NOT assume they know what they are doing, they may be in over their head. Or they may be running street tires and not R-comps. So drive very slowly and increase pace very gradually.
2. Keep in mind that on wet track optimal slip angle is lower. What was under-driving (not enough slip, too slow) in dry can be driving over the limit in the rain. Grip drop off from too much slip is also bigger in the wet. Also, slip angle stability control allows in GT3 is often far past the point of no return in the wet, so stability control may not be able to save you! This is a compromise that Porsche made to make stability control so wonderfully lenient in dry weather, but it's as good as turned off in the moderate or heavy rain. Keep that in mind.
3. Drive not where the line is but where grip is (less shiny track, no standing water).
4. Avoid braking or accelerating in areas where your wheels are on surfaces with different traction (e.g., right side in standing water and left side on just wet track, or wet vs. drying track, or even concrete vs. pavement vs. paint). This will spin the car!
5. Wet paint is often as slippery as ice. Depends on the paint, and some tracks use high-tech paint that's porous enough to not be affected as much, but better be on the safe side unless someone tells you that wet paint is not dangerous at this particular track.
BUT few suggestions:
1. Leave ego at home. Forget lap times, that's a given. But even more than that, ignore if someone passes you in a slower car, even if you passed them before! This is really important - do NOT assume they know what they are doing, they may be in over their head. Or they may be running street tires and not R-comps. So drive very slowly and increase pace very gradually.
2. Keep in mind that on wet track optimal slip angle is lower. What was under-driving (not enough slip, too slow) in dry can be driving over the limit in the rain. Grip drop off from too much slip is also bigger in the wet. Also, slip angle stability control allows in GT3 is often far past the point of no return in the wet, so stability control may not be able to save you! This is a compromise that Porsche made to make stability control so wonderfully lenient in dry weather, but it's as good as turned off in the moderate or heavy rain. Keep that in mind.
3. Drive not where the line is but where grip is (less shiny track, no standing water).
4. Avoid braking or accelerating in areas where your wheels are on surfaces with different traction (e.g., right side in standing water and left side on just wet track, or wet vs. drying track, or even concrete vs. pavement vs. paint). This will spin the car!
5. Wet paint is often as slippery as ice. Depends on the paint, and some tracks use high-tech paint that's porous enough to not be affected as much, but better be on the safe side unless someone tells you that wet paint is not dangerous at this particular track.
Last edited by MaxLTV; 08-05-2015 at 02:30 PM.
08-05-2015, 02:37 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
Input from a total noob.
Got my first Porsche three weeks ago and entered my first AX two weeks ago. Of course when we got to the final runs that counted it started to rain. I gave very serious thought to going home but then realized a couple of things...1) the only person I was in competition with was myself and 2) the whole reason I was there was to learn how to control my car better.
What better way than in the rain? So I gave it a go and was pleased that all four of my times were within about half a second of each other and my fastest time in the wet was only a second slower than my fastest time in the rain.
Of course my car was filthy when it was over but it would have gotten dirty on the drive home anyway.
I say go for it.
Got my first Porsche three weeks ago and entered my first AX two weeks ago. Of course when we got to the final runs that counted it started to rain. I gave very serious thought to going home but then realized a couple of things...1) the only person I was in competition with was myself and 2) the whole reason I was there was to learn how to control my car better.
What better way than in the rain? So I gave it a go and was pleased that all four of my times were within about half a second of each other and my fastest time in the wet was only a second slower than my fastest time in the rain.
Of course my car was filthy when it was over but it would have gotten dirty on the drive home anyway.
I say go for it.
08-05-2015, 04:02 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
For those who do or have tracked their cars on the rain. Since you have to run with your windows open, what do you do to protect the alcantara seat inserts of the unused passenger seat? I'm assuming your seats are getting wet at the very least a little bit. Are you covering the seat with a seat cover of some sort, or scotch guarding the seat etc? just curious.
08-05-2015, 08:54 AM
#23
Drifting
Input from a total noob.
Got my first Porsche three weeks ago and entered my first AX two weeks ago. Of course when we got to the final runs that counted it started to rain. I gave very serious thought to going home but then realized a couple of things...1) the only person I was in competition with was myself and 2) the whole reason I was there was to learn how to control my car better.
What better way than in the rain? So I gave it a go and was pleased that all four of my times were within about half a second of each other and my fastest time in the wet was only a second slower than my fastest time in the rain.
Of course my car was filthy when it was over but it would have gotten dirty on the drive home anyway.
I say go for it.
Got my first Porsche three weeks ago and entered my first AX two weeks ago. Of course when we got to the final runs that counted it started to rain. I gave very serious thought to going home but then realized a couple of things...1) the only person I was in competition with was myself and 2) the whole reason I was there was to learn how to control my car better.
What better way than in the rain? So I gave it a go and was pleased that all four of my times were within about half a second of each other and my fastest time in the wet was only a second slower than my fastest time in the rain.
Of course my car was filthy when it was over but it would have gotten dirty on the drive home anyway.
I say go for it.
This is all good but the 1 difference is the risk in AX is a lot lower - if you screw up you're hitting cones vs. potentially hitting a wall
08-05-2015, 08:59 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
For those who do or have tracked their cars on the rain. Since you have to run with your windows open, what do you do to protect the alcantara seat inserts of the unused passenger seat? I'm assuming your seats are getting wet at the very least a little bit. Are you covering the seat with a seat cover of some sort, or scotch guarding the seat etc? just curious.
I hate driving with windows down rain or shine. More dangerous as well. Can't believe the track and organizers keep accepting liability.
08-05-2015, 09:24 AM
#26
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All of the above. I generally don't miss wet sessions. But you need to exercise extra diligent risk management (really study the runoff areas), slow down a lot, be extra smooth, stay off paint, etc. Also, I wouldn't even consider turning stability control off in the 991 GT3 when driving in the wet.
08-05-2015, 12:39 PM
#27
You learn an awful lot in the rain....definitely do it....Your line and throttle need to be spot on....remeber, it's a learing experience, not about how fast you can go....I remember running my Z06 in the rain and getting passed by a Volvo AWD station wagon 
Anyways, Saturday here in New England is looking better than it did at the beginning of the week
Anyways, Saturday here in New England is looking better than it did at the beginning of the week
08-05-2015, 09:40 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thank you Max. I appreciate you mentioning those points. All important. It's looking like it will now be a sunny day on Saturday, but I value all the feedback. Good things to keep in mind.
08-06-2015, 08:30 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
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I love racing in the wet, but the stakes do go up. If I have one more thing to add above what everyone else has added, is that you need to be extra careful of the other people on track. If one person drives above his capability in the wet, you might be the victim so on top on what everyone said, really be careful of others in the wet.
08-06-2015, 08:56 AM
#30
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Keep in mind that on wet track optimal slip angle is lower. What was under-driving (not enough slip, too slow) in dry can be driving over the limit in the rain. Grip drop off from too much slip is also bigger in the wet. Also, slip angle stability control allows in GT3 is often far past the point of no return in the wet, so stability control may not be able to save you! This is a compromise that Porsche made to make stability control so wonderfully lenient in dry weather, but it's as good as turned off in the moderate or heavy rain. Keep that in mind.
That said, I have found the stability control to be fairly effective in both settings. Early on, I experimented with turning it off and on, while on a wet to semi-wet skidpad, and I found that it gives a lot of latitude to get the car out of shape before intervening, and then it intervenes quite effectively. That give me some confidence that the stability control will generally stay out of my way, but also help me when I really need the help, so I've been running with it on while on track in wet and dry conditions, and I've found it generally intervening as I hoped in both conditions. For example, I was once too aggressive with the throttle on a wet track, the car hit a bump, and I'm sure I would have spun if stability control wasn't on. But again, I agree that this shouldn't lead to overconfidence, since X% of the time the stability control won't be able to make an effective correction (YMMV on what X is).
My one complaint about the stability control is that it seems to intervene sometimes when I release the brakes at corner entry (I can feel the brake pedal vibrating). I'm trying to adjust my driving to work around this, but I'm wondering if something is off with the calibration of my car, since I don't hear others complaining of this. I'll be driving my cousin's 991 GT3 at COTA in a few weeks, so that will provide a good opportunity to compare. If my cousin's car behaves like mine, I may try turning the stability control off (in my car, not his!), but I'll wait until my roll bar and harnesses are installed before doing that, and would need to slow down initially before rebuilding my pace.