Some GT3s getting their engine replaced - again
07-19-2015, 02:06 AM
#61
Intermediate
07-19-2015, 02:34 AM
#62
Intermediate
Great you're back on the road ... sounds like this engine replacement happened more than just a few weeks ago ...
*The cylinder misfire codes showed up June 15 while at a HPDE at Watkins Glen. Had it to the dealer the next day. They ran leak down, compression, swapped coils and plugs, and ran some analogues that they sent to PCNA who then sent them to Germany. Direction came back to drop the engine out and check the valve train assembly. This revealed grooving of the intake camshaft of cylinder 5. That's the only side examined. The rest of the engine was packed up and sent back without further disassembly.
*A few other things that my tech noted. He bore scoped the cylinders and found a good deal of pooling oil. Prior to this, the engine burned a good deal of oil and was very smoky on startup.
Would you let us know:
1. How long was your GT3 out of commission, i.e days from when dealer took car and date you had re-delivery?
*I had it back in one week, on the dot. Monday to Monday.
2. Was your 2014 GT3 an early or late production car (month/year)?
*It was a late production car. Arrived in port last July. Engine swapped in August. Delivered first week of September last year.
3. Did you receive $$ compensation for the period of no use, and did you get a loaner vehicle?
*Loaner car was covered...a Panamera. I missed two HPDE events that I couldn't get refunded so my dealer has submitted these receipts to PCNA with no action taken, yet.
4. Did they specify precisely what part(s)/mechanism failed?
*I have no further details other than what I summarized above. My tech noted the oil filter on this 16 engine is definitely different from the 14 and 15 despite it having the same part number. This suggests the cause of the oil starvation issue has been addressed in this way.
*This is my working diagnosis and is only conjecture, so take it as it is. I offer it to help those who might have this issue coming their way.
Since you received a completely new engine again, they may not have told you which part(s)/mechanism may be different w/respect to your previous engine (which was your 2nd engine for the car). Do you think they simply gave you a 2016 engine currently in production.
*It was overnighted from Germany for a cool $4500 according to the invoice I saw so I can only assume it was waiting for dispatch.
Thx for any info you can provide us.
*The cylinder misfire codes showed up June 15 while at a HPDE at Watkins Glen. Had it to the dealer the next day. They ran leak down, compression, swapped coils and plugs, and ran some analogues that they sent to PCNA who then sent them to Germany. Direction came back to drop the engine out and check the valve train assembly. This revealed grooving of the intake camshaft of cylinder 5. That's the only side examined. The rest of the engine was packed up and sent back without further disassembly.
*A few other things that my tech noted. He bore scoped the cylinders and found a good deal of pooling oil. Prior to this, the engine burned a good deal of oil and was very smoky on startup.
Would you let us know:
1. How long was your GT3 out of commission, i.e days from when dealer took car and date you had re-delivery?
*I had it back in one week, on the dot. Monday to Monday.
2. Was your 2014 GT3 an early or late production car (month/year)?
*It was a late production car. Arrived in port last July. Engine swapped in August. Delivered first week of September last year.
3. Did you receive $$ compensation for the period of no use, and did you get a loaner vehicle?
*Loaner car was covered...a Panamera. I missed two HPDE events that I couldn't get refunded so my dealer has submitted these receipts to PCNA with no action taken, yet.
4. Did they specify precisely what part(s)/mechanism failed?
*I have no further details other than what I summarized above. My tech noted the oil filter on this 16 engine is definitely different from the 14 and 15 despite it having the same part number. This suggests the cause of the oil starvation issue has been addressed in this way.
*This is my working diagnosis and is only conjecture, so take it as it is. I offer it to help those who might have this issue coming their way.
Since you received a completely new engine again, they may not have told you which part(s)/mechanism may be different w/respect to your previous engine (which was your 2nd engine for the car). Do you think they simply gave you a 2016 engine currently in production.
*It was overnighted from Germany for a cool $4500 according to the invoice I saw so I can only assume it was waiting for dispatch.
Thx for any info you can provide us.
-Vtxdrew
07-19-2015, 08:41 AM
#63
2nd Gear
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Second Engine Change
Had a second engine change myself last week on my '14 991 GT3. Was told it was due to an oil pump failure which in turn might have damaged the engine (oils starvation). Took about 1 month to ship (To Dubai) and replace the engine and was given a cayenne as a replacement. I have about 15k kms on the car with considerable track time (about 13 track days) which might seem like a lot but should be normal for a GT3. I wonder if this issue will blow up once again.
07-19-2015, 12:14 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
It seems so far, that maybe these were '14s at the factory when engines were replaced. Mine is one of those also. I was originally an April delivery, but got it in September.
07-19-2015, 01:05 PM
#65
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My car was delivered in SEPT 2014...so I can confirm mine is in that window..and the fact that they only spent 1 day diagnosing my 'piston misfire' problem before PAG sent a new engine 3 day freight from Germany tells me they were not surprised by the issue..I'll keep u posted if I have anymore complications...
07-19-2015, 01:33 PM
#66
"A few other things that my tech noted. He bore scoped the cylinders and found a good deal of pooling oil. Prior to this, the engine burned a good deal of oil and was very smoky on startup."
Andy, thx for detail.
Many rennlisters have noted occasional smoke on start-up. Interestingly, many including my own GT3 had odd readings/anomalies in oil level measurements ... sometimes higher than expected, sometimes odd large increase in level after not adding that much oil.
If the oil delivery system is new on the 2016 GT3 RS, as Preuninger states, is there an underlying lubricating system design flaw in the 2014/2015 3.8L engines that led to this design change. Wonder if the new 2016 GT3 3.8L engines are incorporating a new design. It'd be difficult to argue that a different oil filter alone would rectify the "pooling oil" in the cylinders and be entire fix.
I think we'll hear much more on this.
Ben
Andy, thx for detail.
Many rennlisters have noted occasional smoke on start-up. Interestingly, many including my own GT3 had odd readings/anomalies in oil level measurements ... sometimes higher than expected, sometimes odd large increase in level after not adding that much oil.
If the oil delivery system is new on the 2016 GT3 RS, as Preuninger states, is there an underlying lubricating system design flaw in the 2014/2015 3.8L engines that led to this design change. Wonder if the new 2016 GT3 3.8L engines are incorporating a new design. It'd be difficult to argue that a different oil filter alone would rectify the "pooling oil" in the cylinders and be entire fix.
I think we'll hear much more on this.
Ben
07-19-2015, 01:46 PM
#67
Had a second engine change myself last week on my '14 991 GT3. Was told it was due to an oil pump failure which in turn might have damaged the engine (oils starvation). Took about 1 month to ship (To Dubai) and replace the engine and was given a cayenne as a replacement. I have about 15k kms on the car with considerable track time (about 13 track days) which might seem like a lot but should be normal for a GT3. I wonder if this issue will blow up once again.
07-19-2015, 02:08 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
So 3-4 of the dozen already reported here. Wow...
07-19-2015, 02:24 PM
#69
07-19-2015, 04:09 PM
#71
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Im on engine 3 too...
my january 2014 has just had engine 3 fitted.
4000 miles 10% on track.
early oil and filter change at 1250 miles.
"reduced performance, ok to drive on" came on.
It was recovered to the dealership who liaised with Porsche GMBH and after a few days I was told a new engine was on the way.
6 weeks to arrive and I was loaned a Mercedes S class 350.
it was fitted within a few days and
is a "f" engine prefix now.
I asked my dealer about running it in and they said just do what you like and asked if I had any track days booked that week
I have chosen to run it in.
Awesome to have it back again
4000 miles 10% on track.
early oil and filter change at 1250 miles.
"reduced performance, ok to drive on" came on.
It was recovered to the dealership who liaised with Porsche GMBH and after a few days I was told a new engine was on the way.
6 weeks to arrive and I was loaned a Mercedes S class 350.
it was fitted within a few days and
is a "f" engine prefix now.
I asked my dealer about running it in and they said just do what you like and asked if I had any track days booked that week
I have chosen to run it in.
Awesome to have it back again
07-19-2015, 05:31 PM
#72
Three Wheelin'
FWIW, there are about 4 people including vtxdrew in this thread who reported getting new engines -
Tony King
997TTMeteor
vtxdrew
Jaypod
Maybe 5th?
6th? - Levd's friend. - confirmed here.
(That thread also seems to track a different issue - loose coil - which seems less fatal - also what a friend's car who just picked it up seems to be suffering from).
7th - azacad
Tony King
997TTMeteor
vtxdrew
Jaypod
Maybe 5th?
6th? - Levd's friend. - confirmed here.
(That thread also seems to track a different issue - loose coil - which seems less fatal - also what a friend's car who just picked it up seems to be suffering from).
7th - azacad
Last edited by sunnyr; 07-25-2015 at 04:36 PM.
07-20-2015, 12:37 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
Wouldn't you add the worldwide 2014 engine recall as a engine failure into the stat? You make it sound like only after recall that only 3rd engine replacement is the only stat. How long you had car that needed 3rd engine replacement? Probably a year only of use. Mike
07-20-2015, 02:40 AM
#74
Rennlist Member
Porsche is pushing it with these cars, and all of them had and will have teething pains. It just seems nuts to me that so many die hard GT3 fans nock the 991 every chance they get, lost in the memory fog of the issues with past generations. Nobody is happy hearing about these issues, but they are few and far between.
07-20-2015, 09:09 AM
#75
Here's a picture of his engine made at local dealer's.
Engine was then replaced under warranty. Took approx. 2 weeks, they gave him some other Porsche as temporary replacement.