nurburgring bans laptimes
06-19-2015, 04:59 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
06-21-2015, 12:29 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I suppose this will be the only sight of an RS on an unlimited track, sadly. No lap time:
His final comment was before the ban. Now its not lap record attempt ever
His final comment was before the ban. Now its not lap record attempt ever
06-22-2015, 11:36 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Agree with the gist of that article. The new owners are idiots if they make this ban permanent. If so, 70% of the gearheads in the world will stop caring about the "ring", and they won't make ring days part of their vacations and fewer actual races will be held at the ring. Another track like Spa will then be the track everyone talks about and the Ring will just fade away.
They purchased a bloody racetrack not a beauty parlor. They need to run it as such.
They purchased a bloody racetrack not a beauty parlor. They need to run it as such.
06-23-2015, 03:56 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
Agree with the gist of that article. The new owners are idiots if they make this ban permanent. If so, 70% of the gearheads in the world will stop caring about the "ring", and they won't make ring days part of their vacations and fewer actual races will be held at the ring. Another track like Spa will then be the track everyone talks about and the Ring will just fade away.
They purchased a bloody racetrack not a beauty parlor. They need to run it as such.
They purchased a bloody racetrack not a beauty parlor. They need to run it as such.
06-24-2015, 03:58 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
There is no debate. The only reason B2G is somewhat supporting the speed limits is because their site depends on it.
The new 'Ring is the same as the current state of the USA, whereby the "citizens" vote to nanny themselves out of their own rights, freedoms and well-being in the name of "safety".
The new 'Ring is the same as the current state of the USA, whereby the "citizens" vote to nanny themselves out of their own rights, freedoms and well-being in the name of "safety".
06-24-2015, 05:14 PM
#25
Agree with the gist of that article. The new owners are idiots if they make this ban permanent. If so, 70% of the gearheads in the world will stop caring about the "ring", and they won't make ring days part of their vacations and fewer actual races will be held at the ring. Another track like Spa will then be the track everyone talks about and the Ring will just fade away.
They purchased a bloody racetrack not a beauty parlor. They need to run it as such.
They purchased a bloody racetrack not a beauty parlor. They need to run it as such.
I race and do so competently; I drive at speed on track probably an average of 5 hours per month, maybe more, since I also am lucky to be a member of MSR.
The 'Ring is an incredibly dangerous track and frightened me more than any place I have ever been. It's like the Kink at Road America for 21 km. The speeds are huge, runoff almost nonexistent, and it's very bumpy.
The pace of modern street cars is starting to compare with the F1 cars of years past and Stewart and Lauda are not incompetent pussies; they and others thought the 'Ring is a terrible race track.
While I loved driving there, I don't think I'd be willing to run at a qualifying pace, especially not in a street car without a full cage and proper safety gear. The GTR that went into spectators at Flugplatz is yet another dimension of danger.
It is inviting death or serious injury to the test drivers of street cars to have them motivated to run "record" speeds. In addition to the intrinsic danger of the track, add in uncertain surface conditions due to rain, debris, or dew and I am frankly surprised no one has been killed so far. On my first trip to the 'Ring there were 2 fatalities in 7 days.
On the other hand, Spa was fantastic! Huge speeds, but proper runoff and so I was able to run 10/10s there and went off in Eau Rouge and Pouhon both with no drama at all, given the room and off-track pavement.
While nostalgia for the 'Ring may be strong, there are plenty of other tracks to provide comparison lap times and frankly I'd rather see a track where I could also drive 10/10s used as a yardstick, in the hopes that I could see how I stack up. I'll never do that at the 'Ring.
Finally, if lap time records are so important, how do you explain the ever-growing popularity of the Tail of the Dragon?
I'll probably go back to the 'Ring, but won't worry at all about lap times and it is a bit of a relief to think no one else is allowed to, either. It will remain an epic, must-drive for any gearhead.
06-24-2015, 05:32 PM
#26
I disagree. I am not sure how many here have driven the 'Ring or Spa. I had the good fortune to drive both in May, and I had been to the 'Ring previously. Bottom line, the ban on record attempts makes a lot of sense to me.
I race and do so competently; I drive at speed on track probably an average of 5 hours per month, maybe more, since I also am lucky to be a member of MSR.
The 'Ring is an incredibly dangerous track and frightened me more than any place I have ever been. It's like the Kink at Road America for 21 km. The speeds are huge, runoff almost nonexistent, and it's very bumpy.
The pace of modern street cars is starting to compare with the F1 cars of years past and Stewart and Lauda are not incompetent pussies; they and others thought the 'Ring is a terrible race track.
While I loved driving there, I don't think I'd be willing to run at a qualifying pace, especially not in a street car without a full cage and proper safety gear. The GTR that went into spectators at Flugplatz is yet another dimension of danger.
It is inviting death or serious injury to the test drivers of street cars to have them motivated to run "record" speeds. In addition to the intrinsic danger of the track, add in uncertain surface conditions due to rain, debris, or dew and I am frankly surprised no one has been killed so far. On my first trip to the 'Ring there were 2 fatalities in 7 days.
On the other hand, Spa was fantastic! Huge speeds, but proper runoff and so I was able to run 10/10s there and went off in Eau Rouge and Pouhon both with no drama at all, given the room and off-track pavement.
While nostalgia for the 'Ring may be strong, there are plenty of other tracks to provide comparison lap times and frankly I'd rather see a track where I could also drive 10/10s used as a yardstick, in the hopes that I could see how I stack up. I'll never do that at the 'Ring.
Finally, if lap time records are so important, how do you explain the ever-growing popularity of the Tail of the Dragon?
I'll probably go back to the 'Ring, but won't worry at all about lap times and it is a bit of a relief to think no one else is allowed to, either. It will remain an epic, must-drive for any gearhead.
I race and do so competently; I drive at speed on track probably an average of 5 hours per month, maybe more, since I also am lucky to be a member of MSR.
The 'Ring is an incredibly dangerous track and frightened me more than any place I have ever been. It's like the Kink at Road America for 21 km. The speeds are huge, runoff almost nonexistent, and it's very bumpy.
The pace of modern street cars is starting to compare with the F1 cars of years past and Stewart and Lauda are not incompetent pussies; they and others thought the 'Ring is a terrible race track.
While I loved driving there, I don't think I'd be willing to run at a qualifying pace, especially not in a street car without a full cage and proper safety gear. The GTR that went into spectators at Flugplatz is yet another dimension of danger.
It is inviting death or serious injury to the test drivers of street cars to have them motivated to run "record" speeds. In addition to the intrinsic danger of the track, add in uncertain surface conditions due to rain, debris, or dew and I am frankly surprised no one has been killed so far. On my first trip to the 'Ring there were 2 fatalities in 7 days.
On the other hand, Spa was fantastic! Huge speeds, but proper runoff and so I was able to run 10/10s there and went off in Eau Rouge and Pouhon both with no drama at all, given the room and off-track pavement.
While nostalgia for the 'Ring may be strong, there are plenty of other tracks to provide comparison lap times and frankly I'd rather see a track where I could also drive 10/10s used as a yardstick, in the hopes that I could see how I stack up. I'll never do that at the 'Ring.
Finally, if lap time records are so important, how do you explain the ever-growing popularity of the Tail of the Dragon?
I'll probably go back to the 'Ring, but won't worry at all about lap times and it is a bit of a relief to think no one else is allowed to, either. It will remain an epic, must-drive for any gearhead.
06-24-2015, 06:24 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I do not care about 'ring 'record' times; there are so many weather and track variables, the times are rarely substantiated, and there is no governing body. Look at the Cayman GT4 intro - AP threw a number out there as an estimate, and it became the quoted time without the car ever "officially" going against the clock. Plus the 'ring favors high-horsepower cars, just like the quarter mile does, and that is not particularly important to me.
I know some European car mags attempt to make the times meaningful, but it just isn't possible.
However, it is an epic place, and though I do not want it to change, I have the same fear as ScottKelly911 above. Death has always been a very real possibility for anybody pushing the limits there, and if it is now a concern...or just a red herring to make more profitable use of the land...it is not hard to surmise this could be the beginning of the end.
Telling to me is that, as I understand it, these recently imposed speed limits are to protect spectators, not drivers or passengers. Is the idea that providing a less dramatic spectacle by limiting speed will have them move voluntarily to other areas of the track? Just does not make a lot of sense to me, along with the other reasons stated by ScottKelly911. And what happens when the next death inevitably occurs, on or off the track? It stands to reason that they will have to answer with more regulations.
I know some European car mags attempt to make the times meaningful, but it just isn't possible.
However, it is an epic place, and though I do not want it to change, I have the same fear as ScottKelly911 above. Death has always been a very real possibility for anybody pushing the limits there, and if it is now a concern...or just a red herring to make more profitable use of the land...it is not hard to surmise this could be the beginning of the end.
Telling to me is that, as I understand it, these recently imposed speed limits are to protect spectators, not drivers or passengers. Is the idea that providing a less dramatic spectacle by limiting speed will have them move voluntarily to other areas of the track? Just does not make a lot of sense to me, along with the other reasons stated by ScottKelly911. And what happens when the next death inevitably occurs, on or off the track? It stands to reason that they will have to answer with more regulations.
06-24-2015, 09:03 PM
#28
Nordschleife Master
I hope not, hopefully the new standard is a shorter circuit like the Nurburgring F1 circuit. The ring or any overly long circuit with straight out top speed straights have to much variables to ever compare lap times.
06-25-2015, 01:42 PM
#29
It's probably the best thing to happen to manufacturers. No longer beholden to a "timed" attack at the ring, no longer needing to one up anyone else based on a single number, Porsche can now go back to driving the ring simply as a proving ground to test fatigue, handling and other characteristics to improve the overall car and not some silly magazine quote
07-07-2015, 08:18 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Various measures are currently being discussed in order to further improve the safety of the Nordschleife for example changing track layout or the mordification [sic.] of racing cars.
https://de.surveymonkey.com/r/Nuerbu...y_Nordschleife