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But the final one is not Karminrot (Magenta). I believe the last one is 'India Red'. If my assumption is correct, the missing cars in our group photo are 'Fraise', 'Black' and 'Karminrot'.
These last three colors also correspond to the last chassis numbers, etc. So the fact that they were built last, and don't appear on the group photo, lends some credence to my story...and I am sticking to it!
Bravo! You make an excellent argument. You'll notice I put a "?" before Karminrot, since that one I wasn't sure about (looks red in the photo (not magenta at all), almost like the current Carmine red, but much more vibrant than I though India would look). Thanks for clarifying that one! I'll stop bugging you now, and let you get back to the sun, sea, and sailing!!
My Mexico Blue PTS RS is still at 170, but now says "materials ordered". Salesman said it means that the paint was ordered, but still no build date scheduled. Does anyone know what kind of lead time this would imply based on normal operating procedures at Porsche? My original build date was early October, but I have been assuming the PTS would push it back.
Please let us know how and when the build progresses, I am PTS Mexico too, originally Dec build... hoping not delayed 5 months as has been quoted by dealer!
Re: Daniel's "Thanks, I'd love to hear your thoughts, Eduardo. I have found the old photos quite confusing as to which colour is which!"
Let me, with Mike's (W8MM) help, give all of you the background on those old photos of the IROC cars before they left the factory:
***************
So now that everybody understands the peculiarity of the old Kodachrome film from Kodak, let's examine Daniel's annotations (which are almost all correct).
Note that the cars in the transport carrier truck correspond exactly to the last two rows at the photo taken (I believe) at the interior yard of Werk I in Zuffenhausen.
Last row in group photo is 'Aubergine', 'Light Yellow', 'Jade Green' & 'Gulf Blue'. That is precisely the order you see them on the bottom of the truck. And only because we have the 'better' truck photo can you really tell that the second color is 'Light Yellow', because otherwise it looks like 'Beige' on the group shot!
The next row up is 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün', 'Mexico Blue', 'Orange' & 'Gelbgrün/Yellow Green'. That is exactly the order as they also appeared in the transport carrier truck! Again, the colors on the truck are more realistic looking than in the group shot. So that helps us out too.
We don't have a photo of the last transport truck, which carried the four cars in the front row, plus another three missing from the group photo. So that makes our analysis job more difficult. And Daniel is correct in almost all of them. It starts out with 'Acid Blue' (which looks too 'purple'), then 'Sahara Beige' (which looks 'pink'), followed by 'Grand Prix White'. But the final one is not Karminrot (Magenta). I believe the last one is 'India Red'. If my assumption is correct, the missing cars in our group photo are 'Fraise', 'Black' and 'Karminrot'.
These last three colors also correspond to the last chassis numbers, etc. So the fact that they were built last, and don't appear on the group photo, lends some credence to my story...and I am sticking to it!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Off the coast of Sardinia near Porto Cervo
.
Nice work, Eduardo. The only problem is we don't know which of those photos were taken in KodaColor and which might have been KodaChrome, or what polarizing filters may have been used. The car you attribute as Birch Green doesn't match any photo of 00040 that I ever took or saw from others. I would bet that the greenish hue belongs to Hellgrun and not Lichtgrun. YMMV
Nice work, Eduardo. The only problem is we don't know which of those photos were taken in KodaColor and which might have been KodaChrome, or what polarizing filters may have been used. The car you attribute as Birch Green doesn't match any photo of 00040 that I ever took or saw from others. I would bet that the greenish hue belongs to Hellgrun and not Lichtgrun. YMMV
Mike: The only thing I know about KodaChrome came from listening to the Paul Simon song:
Kodachrome
They give us those nice bright colors
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world's a sunny day
I got a Nikon camera
I love to take a photograph
So mama don't take my Kodachrome away
And I don't know much about KodaColor either, even though I lived from 1961 to 1966 in Rochester, New York, which was totally dominated by the Eastman Kodak Company at that time.
But here is how I attributed the color 'Birch Green' to the car in the Werk I group photo.
1) Here is the car I called 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün':
***
2) Here is the 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün' IROC 911 RSR later (after an exterior 'paint refresh', using Mike's words) when W8MM owned it:
***
3) Here is a contemporary photo of what I believe was the 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün' IROC 911 RSR during the actual race period using KodaChrome, KodaColor or some other chemical film of the period:
***
4) Here is the famous Werk 1 group photo at Zuffenhausen and then with the carrier truck that takes them away:
When you use both photos to identify the cars & colors, the 'green' car with the most yellow tint has to be 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün'!
***
Based on all of that evidence, I am saying that the car we identify as ''Birch Green/Lichtgrün' is indeed this one:
But the photo of it on the truck shows it in better light!
As for 'Hellgrün', here is how I got there...it even quotes you re: an incorrect attribution of the 'Jade' color to your old 'Birch Green' #9114600040 in another forum!
"I am pretty sure that the 'Bright Green' is not 'Irish Green', color code 213 as I have seen it previously reported in the web. I believe the color is actually 'Jade Green', color code 227, which is often referred by its German name 'Hellgrün'. This was a 'special color' in MY1974 and would have made more sense that it was the one chosen to paint this car! The colors are not correctly captured in the period photos due to the peculiarities of the Kodak film used at the time!
Here is as it was raced:
There is even this old post at another forum from one 'Mike V.' that also posted earlier on this thread. He was making the point that the photo (first above) is not of his old 'Birch Green' 9114600040, but Mike goes on to mention he thinks that color is 'Hellgrün' ('Jade Green'), which makes more sense!
"Mike Valentine 11-May-2011 13:58
I'm 99.99% certain that this car is not 9114600040.
This photo shows headlights instead of the black caps that were used in the series, making me think that it was taken after the series was well over. Also, 9114600040 was sold to Stoddard after the Daytona finale and would have had a wicker bill (Gurney flap) attached to the trailing edge of the whale tail. This car seems to be configured for the Riverside races without the extra rear downforce required for Daytona. Another factor is that this color doesn't look in this photo like hellgruen does in real life. This photo has way too much blue and not enough yellow in the color rendition. BTW, I bought 9114600040 from Chuck Stoddard after it had been owned in the interim by a gentleman residing in Utah who had 9" rims front and rear. This car has 9s & 11s in the photo."
Mike: If this is not what you are questioning, please clarify so that we can do more investigation. I find it all a fascinating topic and we need to get it right!
September slot originally - so not too bad really.
So the 5 month delay that my dealer mentioned may be about right? I was Dec build, then orig 12 week delay for Mexico PTS, now waiting to hear. Uk dealers never seem to know dates like the US ones do..
Mike: The only thing I know about KodaChrome came from listening to the Paul Simon song:
Kodachrome
They give us those nice bright colors
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world's a sunny day
I got a Nikon camera
I love to take a photograph
So mama don't take my Kodachrome away
And I don't know much about KodaColor either, even though I lived from 1961 to 1966 in Rochester, New York, which was totally dominated by the Eastman Kodak Company at that time.
But here is how I attributed the color 'Birch Green' to the car in the Werk I group photo.
1) Here is the car I called 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün':
***
2) Here is the 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün' IROC 911 RSR later (after an exterior 'paint refresh', using Mike's words) when W8MM owned it:
***
3) Here is a contemporary photo of what I believe was the 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün' IROC 911 RSR during the actual race period using KodaChrome, KodaColor or some other chemical film of the period:
***
Mike: If this is not what you are questioning, please clarify so that we can do more investigation. I find it all a fascinating topic and we need to get it right!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Heathrow Airport / Premier Inn
.
Ohhhhhhhh
OK, Eduardo, I completely misunderstood which car you thought was 00040.
It's safe to say that I absolutely agree with you about the "yellow" car #15 being the prime suspect for 00040 in Birch/licht green/grun.
It completely comports with the yellowish film shots I managed to take (but now can't find) of the car years ago. In your photo example #3 (the best I've seen, yet - Riverside configuration: lack of wicker bill on tail), one can see greenish shadow detail on the front fenders that backs up all your other observations and historical optical calibrations.
You da man
***
PS: We could also get into Ektachrome transparency films and their color reproduction issues ;~}
PPS: In any color photo from posters, brochures, or magazine pages, there is a further issue of the CMYK printing process' on-press ink ratios. Back in the 1980s, Autoweek magazine had horrible issue-to-issue (even copy-to-copy) variations in the ratios of each of the three process colors and always loaded up the black plate. We were trying to use a beige (tint of Taupe) background color for our ordering info block that looked great in nearly every magazine but Autoweek. There, it could vary from green to purple to mauve with no predictability whatever. Beware the printer's shop people!!!!! Were the progressive proofs even used????
Thanks for posting . Have to say it looks a lot like Marine Blue on an old Series 2A or 3 Land Rover ! Probably be a great color for a plain 911 in a retro sort of way , but it strikes me as odd for an RS .
08-05-2015, 02:32 PM
