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Reference Guide to PTS

Old 12-14-2018, 06:50 PM
  #3856  
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post

I bought a spray out of Auratium green (210 on PTS list, 5712 original Porsche code) from Willhoit. I want to thank Eduardo master of all PTS for mentioning to me that John Willhoit sells spray outs of 356 colors so anyone considering one for $35 you get a sprayed out card which was matched to an original 356. Anyway, I am a terrible photographer, but here is a picture and I will try to get one in sunlight tomorrow. I will also hold it up next to my car when it arrives to see how close it is.
Not all that close.


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Old 12-31-2018, 04:18 PM
  #3857  
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Hey guys, speaking of Auratium I have a question because I'm doing a car project and I'm trying to pick a color.

Can someone explain to me why colors look different on older cars than they do in newer cars? (not talking about old pictures)

I really like the way Auratium looks on this recently painted 356 but obviously it looks so much different on a new 911, and it's not just the lighting:



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Old 12-31-2018, 04:31 PM
  #3858  
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I think it is the camera filters on the first car or it was just painted a color which is not really Auratium. If you look up in this thread, I ordered a panel from Willhoit matched to an original Auratium car and it is no where near as light as the one in the video. It’s not a perfect match to the new paint on my car, but the shade is close, the sample is just a bit more blue. Between the two I actually like the new Auratium. I do have a couple shots of my car where it looks much lighter closer to the first video (maybe not quite that light) which just goes to show camera/monitor/lighting can make a lot of colors look very different.
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Old 12-31-2018, 04:35 PM
  #3859  
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Here is the same car looking darker. Same camera (iPhone X) etc.
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Old 12-31-2018, 04:41 PM
  #3860  
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Oh wow.

Ok so don't pic colors solely off of pics.
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Old 12-31-2018, 04:47 PM
  #3861  
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Originally Posted by soulsea View Post
Oh wow.

Ok so don't pic colors solely off of pics.
Ha. I just find as many picture of the color that I can and sort of average them out in my mind.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:18 PM
  #3862  
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Default Differences in Color...

Originally Posted by soulsea View Post
Hey guys, speaking of Auratium I have a question because I'm doing a car project and I'm trying to pick a color.

Can someone explain to me why colors look different on older cars than they do in newer cars? (not talking about
old pictures). I really like the way Auratium looks on this recently painted 356 but obviously it looks so much different
on a new 911, and it's not just the lighting:



Originally Posted by evilfij View Post


I think it is the camera filters on the first car or it was just painted a color which is not really Auratium.
If you look up in this thread, I ordered a panel from Willhoit matched to an original Auratium car and
it is no where near as light as the one in the video. It’s not a perfect match to the new paint on my
car, but the shade is close, the sample is just a bit more blue. Between the two I actually like the
new Auratium. I do have a couple shots of my car where it looks much lighter closer to the first
video (maybe not quite that light) which just goes to show camera/monitor/lighting can make a
lot of colors look very different.
To truly answer Soulsea's question, you need to consider many possibilities for the differences,
real, perceived or imagined, in the color!

Let's start with some facts. Here is the current color code for 'Auratium':



And below is the original code(s) for the same color back in the late 1950's when the color was introduced on the 356Ad model:





1) When the color code today is different from the original color code in the vintage/historical paint, there is a good chance the formula has been changed.
So 210 vs 712. That by itself hints at a slight change in formula re: the original.

2) Late 1950's Porsche paints were synthetic enamel (Kunstharzlack) with no clear final coat. Today's water-based paint chemistry is very different...and
all colors are clear coated at the end. So even when the color formula bears the same code (i.e. 'Signal Yellow' was & is color code 114), the actual results
with today's paint & clear coat might look slightly different.

3) We don't know who first custom ordered the color 'Auratium' from Porsche on the 991. Perhaps the customer was asked to provide a sample & that
sample was done differently than the original color formula that Porsche used for the original 1957-1959 356A models. Porsche matched the color they
were given by the customer...but still stuck an original color name (e.g. Auratium) on the 'approved PTS list' because that is what the customer called
his sample. The folks that are putting together the PTS list at PAG today are (for the most part) unaware of the subtle meanings of preserving historic
names of colors (e.g. 'Slate Grey') for the actual vintage color formulas. That is why they have both a 615 (historic) and a Y97 (not historic) named
'Slate Grey' on the approved PTS list from the factory at the present time.

4) There are very few original paint 'Auratium' 356's left in existence for anyone to compare true factory colors back then. As it's mentioned by Soulsea,
this 356 in his photo was repainted supposedly 'Auratium'. What color formula did they used to paint the 356? Who knows!

5) And finally, photographs of the same car under different light conditions or lenses will produce different results.

By the way, 'Auratium' was not a very popular color back in it's day. Which makes it all the more valuable today. It's a stunningly beautiful color with the
right interior.





Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:52 PM
  #3863  
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Thank you so much Eduardo.

I sent the paint shop both Auratium codes to create samples for me.

I had no idea same name colors may have two different codes ... for example Olive seems to have stayed 274 even though it still looks very different from back then to now.




http://www.elferclassic.de/technik/f...lack-gruen.php
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Old 01-01-2019, 01:33 AM
  #3864  
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Also… photography has undergone a sea-change from analogue to digital, old photos deteriorate and new digital photos have been manipulated (as have old ones). Don’t get me started on color spaces, and what you’re looking with, where you are, and your own vision.

Single images are useles. Multiple images in aggregate can give you a better idea, especially if you’re used to looking at such things.
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:09 AM
  #3865  
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Originally Posted by soulsea View Post
Hey guys, speaking of Auratium I have a question because I'm doing a car project and I'm trying to pick a color.

Can someone explain to me why colors look different on older cars than they do in newer cars? (not talking about old pictures)

I really like the way Auratium looks on this recently painted 356 but obviously it looks so much different on a new 911, and it's not just the lighting:



New colors are water based for pollution reasons
whilst old color are solvent based which are deeper, brighter and way more resistant than water based color,
also to be mentioned that these days the robots spray an hundred microns (100 microns equals to a tenth of 1 millimeter) of color plus 80/100 of clear coat (needed on water based) that's all in 2 tenths of a millimiter! Back in the day the technology available and human hand spraying was resulting in at least 3+ times the quantity of paint sprayed on the car conpared to a today robot
As both robot based technology and color chemistry keep changing either these days, it will make sense for a modern PTS to be compared only within the same model car range and a 992 with its new production line make no exceptions demanding the same attention eventhough the difference between the 992 and a 991 will normally not be as far as a car painted by hands and with old color tech.
Either staying within the same model same color same water based technology, these days we have new problem, let s say you have to re-paint a door, how to get exactly the same shade reflection from the surface if your paint shop is not using a robot as in the factory?

Last edited by fxz; 01-01-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 01-01-2019, 05:44 PM
  #3866  
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Originally Posted by fxz View Post
Back in the day the technology available and human hand spraying was resulting in at
least 3+ times the quantity of paint sprayed on the car conpared to a today robot
Improving technology, plus new government regulations, has been affecting Porsche
paint quality since 1948. In the early days (pre-1954) when the manufacturing moved
to Stuttgart from Gmund (Austria), the paint they used was lacquer and it was applied
'thick'. And that had its problems too...as many of you know from experience.

Regarding the quantity of paint on the car's surfaces, the depth of the color coat was
really of value in the days when solid single-stage colors without a clear coat were
the standard. Then we could 'color sand' the surface to get rid of the effects of fading
brought about by UV rays & natural oxidation via prolong exposure to the elements.
And some paint 'depth', or thickness of the coat, allowed the detailer a greater margin
of error in the color sanding process back then. I believe that the single-stage solid
color (no final clear coat) era ended at Porsche around 1987/1988. After that date,
all solid-uni colors got a clear final coat. As an interesting aside, please note that
Porsche adopted the water-based paint system back in 1992...nearly 27 years ago!

Today, Porsche will tell you that the depth of the color paint on the surface of their
models doesn't mean much of anything, either in your eye's perception of the color
surface or in its longevity. And that extra paint would just add non-productive 'weight'
and costs to production. Here is their marketing line: 'Ultimately, all four coats of paint
(including the final clear coat) make a total layer of approx. 0.13 millimeters, which is
only slightly thicker than a human hair.'


https://www.porsche-leipzig.com/en/p...he-paint-shop/

Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:14 PM
  #3867  
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Throwing in another Auratium, this time a restoration which looks a lot more like the PTS color.

https://www.ecurie.co.uk/
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Old 01-06-2019, 11:43 AM
  #3868  
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Default Pure Green vs Viper Green




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Old 01-11-2019, 12:37 PM
  #3869  
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Hi,

I asked this on another thread without joy ...

Does anyone happen to know what the paint code for the Aurum wheels is?

Thanks.
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Old 01-18-2019, 07:13 PM
  #3870  
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Originally Posted by GT3 View Post



Great pic, I wonder where would Signal come in between these two. Of course is paler (pastel'ier) than Viper, but would it be darker or lighter than Pure? What are your thoughts...
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