My Track Impressions 991 GT3
05-18-2015, 10:04 AM
#46
Three Wheelin'
Wasn't the 964 the first 911 w/ power assist steering? I would agree that the 991 GT3 steering is best described as highly filtered rather than numb. Always a tradeoff. The kick back in the original (through 89) 911 steering wasn't it's finest characteristic despite it's highly tactile nature.
05-18-2015, 10:40 AM
#48
Three Wheelin'
05-18-2015, 10:41 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
USCTrojan was nice enough to let me take his 991 out for a few laps today. Of course didn't push the car too hard but here are my first impressions (I've been tracking my decently modified 997 GT3RS for about 18mo now):
--Car doesn't FEEL as fast as I thought it would, but it is fast, because I know I'm carrying more pace into the braking zones
--pdks is sweet, so fast, the auto shift is amazing, always in the right gear. the car let me do things I can't do in mine due to shifting upsetting balance of car
--The steering tactile feel is not as good as the 997. it feels artificially heavy, with very little feel and feedback.
--The stock brakes/fluid are OK, but they would be the first thing I'd change. need more bite at top of pedal, felt I had to get too far into pedal to get it to stop.
--Not sure I like the new sport buckets. they are OK, but I'd prefer recaros
--the car feels BIG and WIDE. My 997 feels like well tailored suit, fits just right, feels small, agile (keep in mind, it's wide too), the 991 feels just "big"
--While the steering feel is not great, the car goes exactly where you want. The new damping is amazing. It will jump berms as well as my Ohlins setup. The back end is STUCK. So planted and stable. The front turns exactly where you want it. Might benefit from slightly higher spring rates all around.
--The Cup2 tires are really good
--Didn't find the stability control invasive at all.
--I prefer the noise of my 997
Would I get rid of my 997 for one? No, but I would add one to the garage. Need. More. Space.
--Car doesn't FEEL as fast as I thought it would, but it is fast, because I know I'm carrying more pace into the braking zones
--pdks is sweet, so fast, the auto shift is amazing, always in the right gear. the car let me do things I can't do in mine due to shifting upsetting balance of car
--The steering tactile feel is not as good as the 997. it feels artificially heavy, with very little feel and feedback.
--The stock brakes/fluid are OK, but they would be the first thing I'd change. need more bite at top of pedal, felt I had to get too far into pedal to get it to stop.
--Not sure I like the new sport buckets. they are OK, but I'd prefer recaros
--the car feels BIG and WIDE. My 997 feels like well tailored suit, fits just right, feels small, agile (keep in mind, it's wide too), the 991 feels just "big"
--While the steering feel is not great, the car goes exactly where you want. The new damping is amazing. It will jump berms as well as my Ohlins setup. The back end is STUCK. So planted and stable. The front turns exactly where you want it. Might benefit from slightly higher spring rates all around.
--The Cup2 tires are really good
--Didn't find the stability control invasive at all.
--I prefer the noise of my 997
Would I get rid of my 997 for one? No, but I would add one to the garage. Need. More. Space.
now that I have had 20+ track days on it, I have never looked back, IMO the 991 GT3 is the best street car on the track today.
05-18-2015, 11:14 AM
#50
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Engineers will say that electric steering in theory should provide an even more direct connection between steering wheel and tire; it's just down to programming. I say show me. Then again, maybe Porsche has come to the conclusion that their new target market doesn't want that wonderfully talkative 911 steering feel. Who knows.
Personally I would've preferred they went with the electric pump, hydraulic rack solution used on the Cup car, but I suspect that wouldn't have met parts-sharing/assembly-streamlining goals.
EOD, just thankful they didn't saddle us with steer-by-wire, which is where the industry is headed.
Last edited by Nizer; 05-18-2015 at 10:22 PM.
05-18-2015, 09:45 PM
#51
Race Director
Not sure anyone here is saying it's bad. Just that they prefer the feel and feedback of 997 GT3/RS. Seems to be the majority opinion for those that have spent time in both.
Engineers will say that electric steering in theory should provide an even more direct connection between steering wheel and tire; it's just down to programming. I say show me. Then again, maybe Porsche has come to the conclusion that their new target market doesn't want that wonderfully talkative 911 steering feel. Who knows.
Personally I would've preferred they went with the electric pump, hydraulic rack solution used on the Cup car, but I suspect that wouldn't have met parts-sharing/assembly-streamlining goals.
EOD, just thankful they didn't saddle us with drive-by-wire, which is where the industry is headed.
Engineers will say that electric steering in theory should provide an even more direct connection between steering wheel and tire; it's just down to programming. I say show me. Then again, maybe Porsche has come to the conclusion that their new target market doesn't want that wonderfully talkative 911 steering feel. Who knows.
Personally I would've preferred they went with the electric pump, hydraulic rack solution used on the Cup car, but I suspect that wouldn't have met parts-sharing/assembly-streamlining goals.
EOD, just thankful they didn't saddle us with drive-by-wire, which is where the industry is headed.
05-19-2015, 01:24 AM
#52
Racer
The 991 and all of its peers are trying to cheat nature with digital augmentation... and they do it brilliantly, but they are still augmented systems... you can never exactly emulate an analog world digitally ... you can come close, but you are still intervening and injecting digital judgment before your own raw judgment ...
for my money there's nothing that comes close to a well set up shell with plain old analog coilovers and the simplest rack possible... and very little damping in the cabin... the base of the seat needs to be raw...
05-27-2015, 03:02 AM
#54
GT3 player par excellence
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i dont like car with no ps. i am weak. i bench press 10lbs. that's ten pounds
with regard to steering feel.
rough and bumpy doesn't mean it has feedback.
if you need ten pounds of salt on your steak, you need better taste buds. it's not the steak's fault that you have bad taste buds.
991 has a lot of steering feel, you need to FEEL it.
caress the steering wheel not grab it.
if bump is feel, then try a mack truck. plenty feel and it's really hard to drive it well on the N-ring.
05-27-2015, 01:05 PM
#55
Race Car
USCTrojan was nice enough to let me take his 991 out for a few laps today. Of course didn't push the car too hard but here are my first impressions (I've been tracking my decently modified 997 GT3RS for about 18mo now):
--Car doesn't FEEL as fast as I thought it would, but it is fast, because I know I'm carrying more pace into the braking zones
--pdks is sweet, so fast, the auto shift is amazing, always in the right gear. the car let me do things I can't do in mine due to shifting upsetting balance of car
--The steering tactile feel is not as good as the 997. it feels artificially heavy, with very little feel and feedback.
--The stock brakes/fluid are OK, but they would be the first thing I'd change. need more bite at top of pedal, felt I had to get too far into pedal to get it to stop.
--Not sure I like the new sport buckets. they are OK, but I'd prefer recaros
--the car feels BIG and WIDE. My 997 feels like well tailored suit, fits just right, feels small, agile (keep in mind, it's wide too), the 991 feels just "big"
--While the steering feel is not great, the car goes exactly where you want. The new damping is amazing. It will jump berms as well as my Ohlins setup. The back end is STUCK. So planted and stable. The front turns exactly where you want it. Might benefit from slightly higher spring rates all around.
--The Cup2 tires are really good
--Didn't find the stability control invasive at all.
--I prefer the noise of my 997
Would I get rid of my 997 for one? No, but I would add one to the garage. Need. More. Space.
--Car doesn't FEEL as fast as I thought it would, but it is fast, because I know I'm carrying more pace into the braking zones
--pdks is sweet, so fast, the auto shift is amazing, always in the right gear. the car let me do things I can't do in mine due to shifting upsetting balance of car
--The steering tactile feel is not as good as the 997. it feels artificially heavy, with very little feel and feedback.
--The stock brakes/fluid are OK, but they would be the first thing I'd change. need more bite at top of pedal, felt I had to get too far into pedal to get it to stop.
--Not sure I like the new sport buckets. they are OK, but I'd prefer recaros
--the car feels BIG and WIDE. My 997 feels like well tailored suit, fits just right, feels small, agile (keep in mind, it's wide too), the 991 feels just "big"
--While the steering feel is not great, the car goes exactly where you want. The new damping is amazing. It will jump berms as well as my Ohlins setup. The back end is STUCK. So planted and stable. The front turns exactly where you want it. Might benefit from slightly higher spring rates all around.
--The Cup2 tires are really good
--Didn't find the stability control invasive at all.
--I prefer the noise of my 997
Would I get rid of my 997 for one? No, but I would add one to the garage. Need. More. Space.
Great review, thank you.
I found your comment about the "heavy artificial steering" to be the most interesting. I recently was handed the keys to a brand new Cayman S PDK, and the first thing I noticed coming from a 997 Carrera S was the heavy steering. It was numb, and made a very light car feel like it was over-weight. Dealbreaker for me.