New PCCB and Track days – Facts Feedback Thread
#46
Rennlist Member
Thank you.
The wear rate is only relevant if similar to ones own use; For around these hot parts in the past we ran 40-50 track days a year, over half of them at Sebring regularly cracking rotors generally doing as much harm to brakes as possible.
Our groups worst use was 8 days on OEM drilled rotors and 12 days on slotted PFC rotors, sometimes doubling those numbers if lucky, fewer Sebring days and cooler weather.
This is maybe 10 997RS any given weekend running a second or 2 off the times a pro would and us hacks are probably harder on brakes than a pro, this gave us a real cost per day for brakes.
The backing plate is 4mm, OEM Pagids gave up long before (4 days) but PFC could be run down to the metal to give us 8-10 days..
It was roughly;
8 days on front tires
14 days on front rotors at $450 per front.
8 days on front pads at $200 per front
3-4 days on rear tires
40+ days on rear rotors at $400 per rear (Turbo rotors fit and cost $350 for BOTH, but don't last so not worth the hassle.)
12 days on rear pads at about $175 per rear.
This was 2013 pricing and sorry this is all 997 data, but that's all I have and hoping to put together for the 991. I'd love to get 20 991 track fanatics to compile data like you do.
Or just get PCCB and cross my fingers.....
So with PCCB at really $1000.00 per corner cost they have to last 30 days on the front and forever on the rear really. Plus a little extra cost cost of more often pad changes to save the PCCB rotors for max durability.
Even if its say 25% more expensive, its nice to not crack rotors and having less work / labor cost switching them out. It would be nice to just redo rotors at $4K a year and be done with it for a year just throw pads at it.....
The wear rate is only relevant if similar to ones own use; For around these hot parts in the past we ran 40-50 track days a year, over half of them at Sebring regularly cracking rotors generally doing as much harm to brakes as possible.
Our groups worst use was 8 days on OEM drilled rotors and 12 days on slotted PFC rotors, sometimes doubling those numbers if lucky, fewer Sebring days and cooler weather.
This is maybe 10 997RS any given weekend running a second or 2 off the times a pro would and us hacks are probably harder on brakes than a pro, this gave us a real cost per day for brakes.
The backing plate is 4mm, OEM Pagids gave up long before (4 days) but PFC could be run down to the metal to give us 8-10 days..
It was roughly;
8 days on front tires
14 days on front rotors at $450 per front.
8 days on front pads at $200 per front
3-4 days on rear tires
40+ days on rear rotors at $400 per rear (Turbo rotors fit and cost $350 for BOTH, but don't last so not worth the hassle.)
12 days on rear pads at about $175 per rear.
This was 2013 pricing and sorry this is all 997 data, but that's all I have and hoping to put together for the 991. I'd love to get 20 991 track fanatics to compile data like you do.
Or just get PCCB and cross my fingers.....
So with PCCB at really $1000.00 per corner cost they have to last 30 days on the front and forever on the rear really. Plus a little extra cost cost of more often pad changes to save the PCCB rotors for max durability.
Even if its say 25% more expensive, its nice to not crack rotors and having less work / labor cost switching them out. It would be nice to just redo rotors at $4K a year and be done with it for a year just throw pads at it.....
#48
Rennlist Member
I didn't take the measurements which I gather are done by the dealership with some kind of special tool, maybe involving a laser? I'll have to present these question to the tech when next I'm in. It costs @$300 (I think the dealership is billing a fixed @2 hours) to have the measurements done. Put together a list of good questions to ask, and I'll see what answers I can get.
As for TrackKar, "how hard were the disks driven?", hum. . . . well I wasn't being passed by anyone except that ONE GUY, . . . in our Black group. There's always that ONE GUY isn't there? FWIW, I'm pretty sure there were some low 2 minute, maybe even some sub 2 minute laps at High Plains (@2.5 miles, 15 turns) on Saturday - I need to get a data logger. Sunday OTOH was a very wet, and chilly day. I only ran the two AM sessions. It was chilly and wet enough that a lot of people were pulling out an leaving early, so RMRPCA consolidated the Orange and Black groups at lunch time to try to get everyone their track time, and then shut down early.
PiereTT - I put in a fresh set of Pagid RSC1 (? kind of Yellow) The Tech didn't list the OEM new depth, but as measured Tuesday 5 May, the tech's notes say "Pads: F - 12mm; & R - 11mm" Hopefully some one on this list can supply the original, unused pad thickness. They were supposed to record that data when the pads went in on the 21 of April before the event.
Last, but not least, don't know what everyone else thinks, but I found the car (&/or the car+ the tires, the OEM Cup2s) to be freakingly awesome in the wet.
As for TrackKar, "how hard were the disks driven?", hum. . . . well I wasn't being passed by anyone except that ONE GUY, . . . in our Black group. There's always that ONE GUY isn't there? FWIW, I'm pretty sure there were some low 2 minute, maybe even some sub 2 minute laps at High Plains (@2.5 miles, 15 turns) on Saturday - I need to get a data logger. Sunday OTOH was a very wet, and chilly day. I only ran the two AM sessions. It was chilly and wet enough that a lot of people were pulling out an leaving early, so RMRPCA consolidated the Orange and Black groups at lunch time to try to get everyone their track time, and then shut down early.
PiereTT - I put in a fresh set of Pagid RSC1 (? kind of Yellow) The Tech didn't list the OEM new depth, but as measured Tuesday 5 May, the tech's notes say "Pads: F - 12mm; & R - 11mm" Hopefully some one on this list can supply the original, unused pad thickness. They were supposed to record that data when the pads went in on the 21 of April before the event.
Last, but not least, don't know what everyone else thinks, but I found the car (&/or the car+ the tires, the OEM Cup2s) to be freakingly awesome in the wet.
Did you have Stevinson or Prestige do the measurements? $300, lol
#49
Stevenson is closer to me for service work, and I think I've a good relationship and understanding with the tech who does most of the work on my car.
#50
Averaging them out you get the rears wearing slightly faster than the front- 25% wear front, 35% rear so far. If you maintain this rate the rears will be done at 9500 miles, while the front will get to 13300:
Wear rate at the track is far higher. If we assume the before and after numbers are accurate, your 200 track miles consumed 22% of the front disk's life, and 31% of the rear's. This translates into a total track lifespan of 900 miles for the front disks and 650 miles for the rears.
At $20k per replacement set that works out to $26.50 per mile on the track in brake disks alone, or $5300 for your 200 mile track weekend. This seems a good time to point out that replacement ZR1 rotors are made by the same OEM as Porsche's rotors, and can be bought for $5400 for the set.
I and I'm sure others are looking forward to your next data point with great interest. Thanks very much for gathering and posting this info! I think it's the best we've got for Gen 3 PCCBs, and worth tons to many of us.
#52
Rennlist Member
Wonder if the wear rate tapers off ... if the wear rate is linear for track use 900 track miles on a set of rotors is not good.
I know I get at least 20 days out of fronts on my Brembo Type III (over 2000 miles, at a cost of about $1100 for new friction rings), of course my 997 doesn't have the pace of the 991, nor does it have the stability control systems of the 991 which will accelerate brake wear. Rear type III last a LONG time.
Look forward to the additional data points!
I know I get at least 20 days out of fronts on my Brembo Type III (over 2000 miles, at a cost of about $1100 for new friction rings), of course my 997 doesn't have the pace of the 991, nor does it have the stability control systems of the 991 which will accelerate brake wear. Rear type III last a LONG time.
Look forward to the additional data points!
#53
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Usually with these sorts of things, wear rate gets worse not better with time. The wear makes it so there is less ability to sink the heat and the disc surface gets more uneven which accelerates pad wear.
#57
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I wish I could contribute better... I only have 4 days on the track yet. How pathetic am I...
I have another 2 days coming and will most likely change pads/tires after these 2 days.
So far so good. Happy to see others seems OK too. Maybe the ones with problems are hiding though.
I never had the disks weight measured ... (shame on me)
Bottom Line: Good "impression" so far but no real hard data to support it!
I have another 2 days coming and will most likely change pads/tires after these 2 days.
So far so good. Happy to see others seems OK too. Maybe the ones with problems are hiding though.
I never had the disks weight measured ... (shame on me)
Bottom Line: Good "impression" so far but no real hard data to support it!
#58
#59
Three Wheelin'
Also, what tires are you guys running? Obviously stickier compounds will have a huge impact on brake force capacity and heat.