Superman32

I wouldn't chose manual over pdk-s even they offered it in gt3. Because when I spend 200k+ on a car I want go faster not slower. Plus I don't want to deal with overrev and other issue. I want to focus on my driving line and enjoy the car. On street manual is even worse in traffic. You can't really enjoy a manual 500hp car on public road or you will be pulled over by police. If I want a manual I would just find a 997 gt3 or rs.

997s07

One thing is for sure. Porsche was surprised by the 996 GT3 success. They thought they knew the small market. It was bigger than thought. Now, they know better. Offer PDK only, it'll be faster and will attract non traditional customers. 991 GT3 sales are amazing number wise. Some GT3 drivers are not hardcore driving enthusiasts anymore. We have company now, and don't be surprised if a soccer mom drops off her only child in one of these PDK GT3s.

GT cars make a lot of money, why not make more and sell more with a few tweaks that addresses a broader non traditional market? Now, give them the manual option. You've got PDK loyalists that emerged from "GT3 PDK only - take it or leave it -" sales practices, and manual loyalists. Instant broad market for the second generation of the 991 GT3.

These guys are smart. But being an easier GT3 to drive compared to other iterations is not something I would have welcomed and so I, just like some other guys are not taking the bait - yet. Maybe the 991.2 bait? Maybe.

fxz

Let s say it all the manual offered
by Porsche nowadays
are bull****
so give me a PDK S even more
aggrressive OR a serious motorsport
gearbox

but do not call current Porsche manual gears more involving that s only bull**** MARKETING manual FOR NOSTALGICS

so if i want a manual feeling car i look somewherelse and i want also
the rest of the car MUST BE CONSISTENT with the manual feeling

So the day P will design a real sport manual gear THEN put it on the car with NO rear wheels steering NO computerized diff but only mech diff
NO electronic suspension Etc etc)

otherwise let s be honest it s ridicoulus thinking an RS like the current with a "manual" and even worse with
bull**** manual Porsche is delivering

something so ridicoulus like the people driving a Tesla with a Radio playing
a fake engine sound

Jimmy-D

^I have to say; there is a lot of truth to what you conveyed

NateOZ

Yep and if people haven't experienced a vintage Porsche on the track, add it to the bucket list! Still the most fun I've had, but I'm a little too big to drive one every track day

Nizer

nothing ultra tech about 911 or GT3; no double wishbone inboard suspension; no carbon fiber tub; no seats integrated into tub to save weight with moveable controls; no modern aero - still making it happen with stick on bits; same basic shape that's been around for 50yrs; same basic flat six producing peak HP at same 8,250rpm that Mezger did; yadda, yadda, yadda.

save the ultratech talk for 918 and maybe pending 960.

next.

997rs4.0

I don't think there is enough MT guys to make it into the 991.3!
Porsche just hit the jackpot with the 991.3! Over 3300 cars. I think they are pretty happy! Hopefully the 1rs will be a similar success.

One thing that surprises me is. The key selling component in the gt4 is the MT! And that seems to be the only thing we complain about! To get the gearing right is wouldn't be that hard!

kosmo

so true but every now and then there's sort of a grass roots movement to "rise against the machine"

kinda reminds of of this

ipse dixit

I don't believe that's true.

I think the margins on a base 911 are probably higher than a GT3.

For most marques (Porsche included) halo cars are more for prestige and marketing than bottom line numbers.

997s07

I would have agreed with you on the 997 and 996 GT3 cars. But the 991 GT3 shares so much with other 911 cars AND Cayman / Boxter cars. Petevb has a bunch of posts documenting this.

The 997 cars had the expensive Mezgers, the 996 Cup transmission, etc. The 991 cars have the same DFI engine with a few different internals and the same PDK as the 991 GT3. The suspension is different of course, but not to the tune of an extra $40 grand. They have sold many more 991 GT3 cars in its initial run, I believe, than the 996 or 997 initial runs.

Petevb

I know what you're saying, but I believe the 991 GT3 is actually quite expensive, and that's before counting the stop sale and engine swaps, largely because of the development costs. I'd be very curious to know what the actual numbers are, but I count development, tooling and compliance testing for:

Higher revving engine with new head concept.
New uprights and suspension, high quality dampers
Rear wheel steering
Bespoke tires
On-track warranty coverage
Various systems upgrades (PDK-S, aero, nose lift, etc).

Previous Mezgers were far cheaper to develop, as they built from proven motorsports and previous GT car foundations. The 991 GT3 introduced new concepts and went into uncharted territory. Thus while the repeat cost is certainly lower due to parts sharing, the development and testing costs must have been far higher (we've heard 4x). Spread over a relatively small number of units this adds a lot, though we're seeing that over time some of these costs will be shared with other models (GT4, etc).

My guess is that the base Boxster and base Macan make the least profit by a significant margin. The GT4 and then GT3 likely follow rather close behind. Cars like the GTS and Turbo S are on the other end of the scale- cash cows, relatively. As are options- with very few exceptions checking option boxes is the best way to line Porsche's pockets.

Nizer

100% correct. And the more expensive the model the higher the price and profit for options.

Cayman:
Painted gauges: $690
Aluminum pedals: $535

911:
Painted gauges: $860
Aluminum pedals: $625

And the list goes on. File under "whatever the market will bear"......

NateOZ

When Porsche was public by itself, you could get a lot more information. But they used to run at about 19% net margin per car with Turbo S gross margins being estimated by Wall Street analysts to be around 75%.

The GT3 is probably somewhere in the middle of this range, slightly towards the Turbo S figure. My quick estimate, after taking dealer margin out, PCNA margin/cost recovery, that they're making about $45k margin on a typical GT3 order. This is before you factor in R&D cost recovery and the whole engine issue. Call it $135m margin on the 991 GT3 sales.

GT cars also create more customer loyalty and stickiness, as do programs like Euro delivery etc. I'm sure I'm not the only one who orders additional cars because of the GT car driving experience.

I'm not an expert in the automotive sector at all, so these are rough and more illustrative than anything.

Petevb

Assuming this is right... How many million would you guess the engine development, certification and testing cost? Winter testing in the arctic circle, development mules, tire development, one off prototypes... You quickly get into the many tens of millions which a 991 GTS development never spent before the engine issues. The on-track warranty might cost them a few thousand more per car average? It adds up quick...

Porsche's genius and high profit margins are in parts and development sharing. Lotus is going out of business selling a fraction of the cars (in $ terms) at similar prices, and they are buying rather than developing big bits like engines. Ferrari sells a somewhat similar cost of goods car (458) at twice the price and is not making more. Porsche makes its profits by developing key modular components and sharing them across many cars, ie every Boxster, Cayman, Carrera and Turbo. The GT3 defies much of that philosophy, making its own bespoke 458 grade components, but it costs far more as a result in my estimation due to the inability to share the R&D costs.

997s07

There is a difference between amortizing costs over a whole product (GT3) line and amortizing costs on the books. Many ways to play with accounting. Usually COGS (in this case the parts on the GT3), labor, and factory utilization (electricity, etc.) is how I look at companies (career is in finance).

I think Porsche pays out GT car development costs with Lower model profit margins. This would make the most sense to me.