GT3 values, and Chris Harris speaks marketplace
02-01-2015, 11:32 AM
#151
Nordschleife Master
Why do you care if the RS has a manual if it won't have a 'race engine'?
02-01-2015, 11:35 AM
#152
02-01-2015, 11:38 AM
#153
destaccado. I appreciate your POV. Coming from a strong history of MT cars I went into 991 Gt3 ownership very sceptical I must say. I will also say it took me some time to warm up to the transmission. In Europe when I picked up the car in winter from the factory I did 2000 miles on the MPSC2 and even though I drove it quickly in places it was not until this summer in NZ on roads more familiar to me driving the car in manual mode that I really started to enjoy that box. I finally got to drive the car on track as well in July, August, September (our winter) and I must say in sport auto it worked really well. I had never owned a paddle transmission before - the lesson that increased my enjoyment of the car around town and everywhere was to use the manual mode exclusively.
Manifold was a a tough guy yo please coming into 991 GT3 ownership and his points are particularly relevenant here as we spent months with manifold trying to tell him that he had to drive the ra to understand what we were telling him. My hat goes off to manifold, he took some heat from me and other early adoptors for sure but he acually put his money where is mouth was and bought the car and came through the rest of the exercise with a great thread on his impression on the car (the good and the questioning) and so far I feel his feedback and observations are very much spot on even though his ownership experience is young and there are layers to the 991 GT3 onion that need peeling back slowly over time, such as track work and fast quiet backroad carving. The car has so much character from the transmission and chuntering drive-train to the rabid engine that sings in teh cabin and starts to make your blood boil as it cresendos in the final 1500 rpm. Ive owned mezger engined cars all my 911 owning life and Ive never owned an engine as dynamic and punchy as this. It really does give you a snap in the neck and feels faster even that it is when you nail the loud pedal (I think the aural experience adds to this feeling). Not only does it sound and handle great but it looks just gorgeous - its one of those cars that photographs cant do justice too. When you see it and walk around it you realise how muscular it is in subtle ways.
I reckon we should call a truce on this discussion about the transmission just now. You should get a day or two varied driving seat time in the 991 GT3. Youll probably hate it but maybe not.
Manifold was a a tough guy yo please coming into 991 GT3 ownership and his points are particularly relevenant here as we spent months with manifold trying to tell him that he had to drive the ra to understand what we were telling him. My hat goes off to manifold, he took some heat from me and other early adoptors for sure but he acually put his money where is mouth was and bought the car and came through the rest of the exercise with a great thread on his impression on the car (the good and the questioning) and so far I feel his feedback and observations are very much spot on even though his ownership experience is young and there are layers to the 991 GT3 onion that need peeling back slowly over time, such as track work and fast quiet backroad carving. The car has so much character from the transmission and chuntering drive-train to the rabid engine that sings in teh cabin and starts to make your blood boil as it cresendos in the final 1500 rpm. Ive owned mezger engined cars all my 911 owning life and Ive never owned an engine as dynamic and punchy as this. It really does give you a snap in the neck and feels faster even that it is when you nail the loud pedal (I think the aural experience adds to this feeling). Not only does it sound and handle great but it looks just gorgeous - its one of those cars that photographs cant do justice too. When you see it and walk around it you realise how muscular it is in subtle ways.
I reckon we should call a truce on this discussion about the transmission just now. You should get a day or two varied driving seat time in the 991 GT3. Youll probably hate it but maybe not.
02-01-2015, 11:53 AM
#154
The point you seem to miss is that these forums are as much about the social interaction as the cars. If your participation is routinely causing a backlash, why not change your approach? There are different and more effective ways to make the points you want to make. What use is your message if you're delivering it in a way that no one wants to hear it? And have the humility to recognize that some of your statements may simply be wrong - you may be able to learn something here if you grant a modicum of respect to others, rather that just arguing reflexively.
I don't go out of my way to make snide comments to you or anyone else here. If someone is going to tell me that you need to try something to have an opinion on it -- than telling them to eat a piece of **** can't logically be an insult. I've never tried one and neither have they. That was my point. People telling someone to shut up and then crying when they respond and acting offended is pathetic.
I have no doubt I'd enjoy a 991 GT3 more than my C2S....but I'd prefer it enough to lose the back seats and pay another $60,000 to buy it with hydraulic steering, a less busy interior without 1000 buttons, a manual transmission, and the same motor Porsche is confident enough to race.
You want to know why there's a discussion about the value of 991 GT3's vs 997's? People like me don't want the 991. I'm simply arguing that side. You'd prefer an echochamber?
...at the end of the day if I was purchasing a car to use as a daily driver and I didn't need at least one car with backseats -- I would probably choose a 991 GT3 over a 997. As it stands, a GT3 purchase for me is a fourth car. ...and for fourth car usage -- I simply don't want the 991.
02-01-2015, 12:09 PM
#155
Very simple. Concluding that one thing is better than another without trying it. Pepsi vs. Coke, Blondes vs. Brunettes, Flat Pillow vs. Puffy one.
I have owned several 993s. I drove and tried to like a C4S once. I thought it drove like an SUV compared to my C2 or my C2S. Didn't make it a bad car. Just wasn't for me. But I can comment. Having driven both.
What I didn't do then is go decide to pick a fight with C4S owners. Agree with ATXGT3, that's a sign of deeper issues.
I have owned several 993s. I drove and tried to like a C4S once. I thought it drove like an SUV compared to my C2 or my C2S. Didn't make it a bad car. Just wasn't for me. But I can comment. Having driven both.
What I didn't do then is go decide to pick a fight with C4S owners. Agree with ATXGT3, that's a sign of deeper issues.
...but see -- even if you have driven something I guess your conclusions can be incorrect. Opinions are opinions. Facts are facts.
02-01-2015, 12:22 PM
#156
02-01-2015, 12:35 PM
#157
Race Director
This guy is so pure/classic troll that's it's actually really good entertainment. Just rename this the "destaccato troll thread" and give it its proper recognition. You come to this thread when you need a good senseless argument and can trust that this troll will just take the opposite side of anything, then you can have fun watching him switch positions and hop around... Reminds me of this
02-01-2015, 12:40 PM
#158
Nordschleife Master
Well since you haven't driven my exact car how would you know? You think 20 years after the C4S came out that everyone's C4S is setup the same? My C4S is far more harsh but handles far better than any other 993 I've driven - and I have driven a C2, a C4, a C2S. I'm actually in the process of switching it to PSS10's to make it less harsh.
...but see -- even if you have driven something I guess your conclusions can be incorrect. Opinions are opinions. Facts are facts.
...but see -- even if you have driven something I guess your conclusions can be incorrect. Opinions are opinions. Facts are facts.
You are exactly right. if your 993 C4S has been upgraded significantly, then it would be silly for me to make assumptions about the drive compared to the stock 993 C4S that I drove, which felt heavy and not lively enough at the front end for me. I would need to drive it to compare. I would be skeptical, but I would still need to drive it to know. Same thing with PDK-S. It is so different than PDK (I've driven both extensively), that there is little similarity. The new 991 GT3 is no fun to me in auto or regular pdk manual mode. But when I put it in PDK-S and drive it fully manually, it is as engaging and a better experience than my 11 gt3, or any other mezger Porsche I've owned. I mentioned in a separate thread that for the fun factor, honestly, my 1966 would be the only thing that came close on the grin factor.
Enough of this for me. The sun is out and I am off for a drive...
02-01-2015, 12:49 PM
#159
02-01-2015, 12:57 PM
#160
Rennlist Member
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Since we're already OT, have we confirmed that manual mode works differently when the sport button is pressed? Since my car isn't broken in yet, I've generally left the sport button off, so that I don't rev to high when switching to auto mode.
02-01-2015, 01:08 PM
#162
1st Gear
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newbie to the forum....2015 GT3 black....car is phenomenal as most know - breaking car in, any suggestions? I know the manual states the obvious but some of you guys seem to have been multiple model owners...thanks
02-01-2015, 01:20 PM
#163
Rennlist Member
destaccada. Please come to New Zealand and drive my GT3 for a few days. Not kidding. Also would love you to try my 993 C2. I owned a 993RS some years ago and the set up on my 993C2 is better than that car now in every regard. I have RS upright and tie rods with solid rear subframe mounts, RS ARBs, Big Reds/RS rears with Endless pads and SRF fluid, the rear lower Y arms are new with RS monoball inserts, the other three A arms on each rear assembly are monoball jointed with dust covers, its set up at RS height but with much more aggressive geo for the track, track wheels are 18" OZ HLTs, I have Rennline monoball tops with front adjustable camber plates and 3 piece heim jointed strut brace. Sway bar bushes are Powerflex. Tranny mount is OEM RSR engine mounts solid Wevo type with nothalene bushes. Steering is very precise and direct, car turns in very quickly, less under steer than factory RS and with 40/60 Guards LSD nice power out of turns. A few pics below.
02-01-2015, 01:30 PM
#164
Rennlist Member
When you are past what ever break in you have self imposed upon yourself you will find yourself holding lower gears for longer just to hear the engine. This adds to the intoxication on the open road. in all reality even for fast road work (60-100mph) on very quiet rural roads I would rarely push the engine above 8000 rpm, mostly keeping in the 6000-7000 rpm torque band between shifts. However when we come to cross roads and start from static I enjoy running the car out to 9000 in first and second gear just to feel the pull and hear that engine. On the track its 7000-9000 all day and I love watching the in car footage and reliving that sound. Its just awesome. There is plenty more to experience with the car. I think Ive finally scratched all the surfaces and got to the hard stuff underneath but it has taken 12 months to get to the point of exploiting the chassis and handling dynamics on road and track to a point of more fully understanding the car and what it can do...enjoy....
02-01-2015, 01:54 PM
#165
Rennlist Member
Destaccado, somehow, you really do need to try it. It is very different in every way from your C2S. When my car was delayed, Porsche loaned me a brand new C2S for over 3 months. I was always a manual guy (still have 3 cars that are manual) and was also hesitant on the PDKS, especially after putting 3000 miles on the loaner. The GT3 transmission couldn't be anymore different. It's hard to describe, until you actually try it mated to the GT3 motor. So in essence, all of us ate the ****, and surprisingly, it tastes like a fine filet.