destaccado

Paying out of your own pocket for the purpose of avoiding an insurance hike from an insurance claim isn't dishonest at all - it's smart. Manipulating where you have your car repaired in order to attempt to avoid a ding on the Carfax report so you can sell the car at a higher price later on is dishonest - even if you plan on telling the buyer. Obviously they're only going to pay a higher price for a damaged car with a clean Carfax over the damaged Car with a dirty Carfax because they know at some point they or someone else will cover it up completely. I would liken it to purchasing goods that you know are most likely stolen. The intent matters.

If we lined up two new GT3s side by side but one had been repaired due to a damaged bumper - no one here would pick the damaged car at the same money.

Four Liter

Take LOTS of pictures - before , during repair , and after . Make sure the shop invoice is very specific as to the work done ; i.e. there was a bumper cover replacement done . For the future point out there was no alignment needed or work of any kind under the plastic cover . You should be fine . I've been through this being rear ended on a 1 week old car ( lots of damage ) and it's heartbreaking .

NateOZ

I don't buy used cars, unless it's for a total restoration project or rebuild. That said, you would be surprised how many cars show up brand new with resprays done at the port. I was at a Porsche dealer checking out a brand new Cayenne, colors looked slightly off to me, so they pulled out a paint meter and at least 3 panels had been resprayed.

I think it's buyer beware whether new or used.

destaccado

I completely agree on passing some blame to the buyer that ends up with the car. ...but what about the example where buyers need to waste hundreds of dollars of our money on PPIs searching for damage that should have been disclosed upfront. I'm personally out somewhere north of $600 on three unnecessary PPI's.

Buyer beware -- but screw dishonest individuals and the unethical individuals that encourage the behavior.


OP: Make sure you get a diminished value compensation as part of your reimbursement package. Your car IS unfortunately worth less. The thought of my brand new 911 being damaged within 1000 miles because of some idiot not paying attention would make me sick.

silverrules

Body shop will try to encourage replacing the bumper but they can easily patch it up and paint which is what we did with the wife MB and cost was close to deductible. Good luck either way. Bumpers will get scratched sooner or later for most of us.

Cheers

Hoopumpers

This. My car was rear ended at <5mph 3rd day I owned it. Very minor damage. Simple fix. Yet dropped >10k due to carfax report. Not dishonest - gladly explain incident to buyer.

hfm

Have you ever received a diminished value compensation settlement check from an insurance company? Out of curiosity, I did a search and found these results:

http://www.autoloss.com/Services/Onl...l#.VMx9aie9KSP

http://web.archive.org/web/200302020...a/dimvalue.htm

Let's say the car was purchased at $155,000.00 and after tax and licensing and fees was purchased for $165,000.00. If we take a 40% diminished value assessment as suggested in the article, your demand from the insurance company is $66,000.00 instead of lets, estimate $2,000 for the bumper cover and another $3,000 for paint and installation.

Have you ever received a check for $66,000.00 for diminished value from a scratch instead of $5,000.00 for repair? You really believe an insurance company is going to pay more than 10 times the cost of a repair? And, have you ever bought or sold a car "as is" where the purchase is made without any warranty or disclosure regarding its condition or past history? Where is the ethical issue in such a sale?

Dan (thinks someone is very optimistic)

Alan Smithee

If you are still looking for a shop, check out Gary at Ultimate. He is in Premier's old location, initially established to provide their Ferrari customers a body shop for their 'other' cars. My wife's car has been there more times than I care to admit, and all of their work has been excellent. Absolutely cannot see evidence of repair.

http://www.ultimatecoachworks.com/home

As for being dishonest to avoid showing up on a CarFax report? Are you people kidding? CarFax is a for-profit business. There is absolutely no obligation, legal or moral, for a consumer to share information with them. That marketing seems to have convinced people otherwise is disheartening.

destaccado

You're right -- there's no morals involved in going out of your way to share information with them...However, there are morals involved in intentionally finding ways to skirt them from finding that information so you can sell your car at a higher price to unsuspecting individuals down the line with a bull**** "as-is" representation either made by you or someone you sold to that was enabled by your actions. If you have any integrity at all -- it isn't even a gray area question and has nothing to do with "marketing." Carfax is one of many VIN searching services that pulls their information from public sources; you don't provide them with anything.

destaccado

Dan -- it's obvious to anyone following the 991 GT3 market that this car doesn't have anywhere near $66,000 in diminished value depreciation from this bumper hit. ...but my gut says properly disclosed and documented it would suffer in the range of 5-15k. Before attempting to make my position appear ridiculous, please at least have some idea what you're talking about. From your own article; "Many times a frame or structurally damaged vehicle cannot be sold as a "certified used vehicle." This will impact the vehicle's value by as much as 40%!" This car wasn't frame or structurally damaged and had it been -- that 40% might not be so unreasonable.

I ask direct questions and I expect honest answers. If they don't know the answer and are claiming "as is" due to that then I'll find it out myself via a PPI. If they do know the answer but are attempting to play dumb hoping I won't find it than they're a crook.

destaccado

...and had it not been on the Carfax, regardless of what you told your buyer -- five years from now we'd see it on Rennlist as the "perfect car", "factory paint", "just a few rock chips" as we have numerous times before. ...and that individual would have been enabled by your actions to intentionally avoid disclosure on the Carfax and other VIN searching services in order to sell your car for the higher price.

hfm

But, you didn't answer my direct question with an honest answer.

Have you had a check cut for diminished value instead of repair costs? You're recommending someone take a course of action that may result in loss of value once they proceed, can you guarantee or at least provide any reasonable expectation the insurance company will pay diminished value? I have a hard time thinking the answer is yes when you're talking about assessing DV based upon an amount established by your gut. How is DV actually calculated?

If you're okay with honest answers and direct questions, they why is CarFax essential? And, what is your position on the 2014s? Should they lose value because of engine replacement? Are you okay with loss of value from dealer buy backs labeled as such by varying state law and reported by CarFax yet are no different than any 2014 owner's engine replaced GT3 but are title flagged because they're repurchased by a dealer from the factory? Should every 2014 be listed on CarFax as engine replaced and therefore, lose value?

Dan (is curious)

Alan Smithee

I strongly disagree with you. I have no responsibility to somebody two or ten owners down the line. If you think that somehow corrupts my integrity, so be it. I am honest with people in my own transactions. Probably too honest. How they conduct their lives is not my problem.

CarFax is ALL about marketing. Their entire business model is persuading the public they provide an invaluable service. But their reports are inconsistent, easily misinterpreted, often misrepresented, and therefore flawed. So, no, there are not morals involved by trying to avoid CarFax.

bigkraig

hey palisades shoot me an email rennlist @ bigkraig dot com, i bought the last rear bumper cover available and may not need it.

Sam Zamir

I'm sure you've had it fixed by now. I'd love to hear about the experience.




You guys make me blush!!! Thanks for the vote of confidence.



Wait, what? My shop or Eli's? Cause if I let a fisheye slip unnoticed, I'd GLADLY take care of it right away. Even if that means repainting it. We take GREAT pride in our work, and we need you on the long list of Rennlisters who are THRILLED with our work. PM if you need to.




How can we get a chance to wow you? I'm not wishing for something to happen, but if it does - I'm worth a visit.




Guys - one of the best resources you'll find is yelp. When you see a shop like mine with over 150 5 star reviews (and like 2 1 stars from a jealous competitor), and then compare us to whomever else you want to consider - you'll probably end up with us.