Orthojoe's track build journal
07-01-2016, 07:38 PM
#1726
Intermediate
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Chicagoland
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I have some 19's on the way. I just couldn't keep paying 2K a set for the sport cup 2's any longer. IMO the Michelins don't perform well enough or last long enough to justify their cost. They wear funny in the center sections and heat cycle out very quickly. Tire choices that I have found for the track that become available with the 19's are the Toyo R888's and Hoosiers. Both ore cheaper than the SC2's and provide more grip. They should wear quicker than the SC2's but quite frankly I'm really only getting about 3-4 days on the SC'2's and can't see the new tires going for less than that, even the Hoosiers. Agree with Joe that I would love to see NT01's for this car in 19's. They would likely sell a bunch. Would love to hear some others chime in on this subject.
According to Damon @ Tire Rack, the 19" RE-71R rears in 305 are supposed to be available in August. They are accepting pre-orders. The 245 fronts are already available. I would prefer a 265/325 setup like my R7s, or even 255/315, but those are not showing up until next year, if then. Same with 20" sizes--there is no telling when they might be available.
I couldn't wait until August and just ordered another set of 265/325 R7s. I would run NT01s if they were available. Mooty says "Friends don't let friends run R888s" so I wouldn't even try those.
YMMV,
TT
I couldn't wait until August and just ordered another set of 265/325 R7s. I would run NT01s if they were available. Mooty says "Friends don't let friends run R888s" so I wouldn't even try those.
YMMV,
TT
Agreed. News of the RE-71's in August makes a decent case for 19's. Question is how will their supply on roll out be and will that timeline get pushed back. Looks like they will be popular, deservedly so from what I've heard.
07-07-2016, 12:59 PM
#1728
Rennlist Member
I can't answer your question definitively, since I have retired from big track events due to health issues and have only autocrossed with my GT3, as mentioned above. I can give you my impressions, though, which may still be helpful, and leave it to others to relate their direct experience with the R7 as a track-day tire, if they want to chime in. I would be running A7s if Hoosier made them in the sizes I want, but they don't, so the R7 has been a compromise for me.
First of all, the R7 is definitely an improvement over the older R6 in terms of degradation. My experience with R6s has been in lighter cars, but I am definitely impressed with the more gradual drop-off in grip of the R7 in what is a much heavier car. They do not seem to just "fall off a cliff" after a dozen heat cycles like the R6 (or the R888s). With 12 heat cycles on them, they were still faster than a new set of MPSC2s, and over the next 9 heat cycles, they just continued to lose grip incrementally without becoming unpredictable or turning into bricks. At 20 heat cycles, I would say that they were a little less than "half-rubber" as far as tread wear, but they had probably given up 1.5-2 seconds a lap in grip on our typical ~80 second/1-mile autocross course. If you don't care about being competitive, you could get 30 heat cycles out of them, I would say, but you would be sliding around a lot more for the last 10. In track day terms, with four or five 20-minute sessions a day, I would guess they could last for 6 track days, depending on track surface, temperature, and how hard you drive them, if you flip them on the rims to even out wear after 3 or 4 days, as necessary.
For me, being a competitive SOB, I am throwing them away at 21 heat cycles, because 2 seconds a lap in an autocross is an eternity. That would be the equivalent of 4 track days. If you don't have to "win" the DE, they could be used longer.
Currently, the Hoosiers are only about $200 cheaper than the MPSC2s ($1700 vs. $1900/set). The Cup2 is a great tire that I used with good results for the first 9 events in this car (27 high heat cycles plus 3000+ miles of street driving) without hitting the wear bars anywhere but in the middle of the fronts. Since I am a cheap SOB as well, I would love to use a 200-treadwear tire like the RE-71R that gave 95% of the Hoosier R7 performance at $1200/set, but that day is not here yet. It would drop me down a class in PCA Zone 8 competition as well, but make it tougher to win TTOD against the typical 100-120 cars that show up at our events.
HTH,
TT
First of all, the R7 is definitely an improvement over the older R6 in terms of degradation. My experience with R6s has been in lighter cars, but I am definitely impressed with the more gradual drop-off in grip of the R7 in what is a much heavier car. They do not seem to just "fall off a cliff" after a dozen heat cycles like the R6 (or the R888s). With 12 heat cycles on them, they were still faster than a new set of MPSC2s, and over the next 9 heat cycles, they just continued to lose grip incrementally without becoming unpredictable or turning into bricks. At 20 heat cycles, I would say that they were a little less than "half-rubber" as far as tread wear, but they had probably given up 1.5-2 seconds a lap in grip on our typical ~80 second/1-mile autocross course. If you don't care about being competitive, you could get 30 heat cycles out of them, I would say, but you would be sliding around a lot more for the last 10. In track day terms, with four or five 20-minute sessions a day, I would guess they could last for 6 track days, depending on track surface, temperature, and how hard you drive them, if you flip them on the rims to even out wear after 3 or 4 days, as necessary.
For me, being a competitive SOB, I am throwing them away at 21 heat cycles, because 2 seconds a lap in an autocross is an eternity. That would be the equivalent of 4 track days. If you don't have to "win" the DE, they could be used longer.
Currently, the Hoosiers are only about $200 cheaper than the MPSC2s ($1700 vs. $1900/set). The Cup2 is a great tire that I used with good results for the first 9 events in this car (27 high heat cycles plus 3000+ miles of street driving) without hitting the wear bars anywhere but in the middle of the fronts. Since I am a cheap SOB as well, I would love to use a 200-treadwear tire like the RE-71R that gave 95% of the Hoosier R7 performance at $1200/set, but that day is not here yet. It would drop me down a class in PCA Zone 8 competition as well, but make it tougher to win TTOD against the typical 100-120 cars that show up at our events.
HTH,
TT
Hey Tom, what tire pressures are you running on the R7s for autox? And alignment specs too if you don't mind. I just picked up a set of Hoosiers and looking to get an alignment done before the next OCR autox.
07-07-2016, 01:51 PM
#1729
one thing i do like is the tread pattern
07-08-2016, 10:14 AM
#1731
Addict
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I have been running them much lower pressure than Hoosier recommends, shooting for 30F-32R hot. The R7s needs a lot more heat in them than the A7 to work well, and I think allowing more flex helps build heat in the first runs, at the expense of the tire feeling a little "squishy" in transitions. All my best times have been on 3rd and 4th runs after they have some heat in them and start gripping well. Hot weather really helps, so El Toro in July should be good.
As far as alignment, they could probably use a little more negative camber but I have left the car the same as on the Cup2s so far. I'm running -2.6F and -2.0R camber, 1/16" total front toe out, 3/16" total rear toe in. No caster correction, which it could probably use. If I was going to have an alignment done, I would give F&R another half a degree negative and put in some adjustable thrust arm bushings to dial caster back a little in the front.
Good luck against Kurt and Michael--those guys are quick!
C'ya,
TT
07-08-2016, 11:00 AM
#1732
Rennlist Member
Hi Kraig,
I have been running them much lower pressure than Hoosier recommends, shooting for 30F-32R hot. The R7s needs a lot more heat in them than the A7 to work well, and I think allowing more flex helps build heat in the first runs, at the expense of the tire feeling a little "squishy" in transitions. All my best times have been on 3rd and 4th runs after they have some heat in them and start gripping well. Hot weather really helps, so El Toro in July should be good.
As far as alignment, they could probably use a little more negative camber but I have left the car the same as on the Cup2s so far. I'm running -2.6F and -2.0R camber, 1/16" total front toe out, 3/16" total rear toe in. No caster correction, which it could probably use. If I was going to have an alignment done, I would give F&R another half a degree negative and put in some adjustable thrust arm bushings to dial caster back a little in the front.
Good luck against Kurt and Michael--those guys are quick!
C'ya,
TT
I have been running them much lower pressure than Hoosier recommends, shooting for 30F-32R hot. The R7s needs a lot more heat in them than the A7 to work well, and I think allowing more flex helps build heat in the first runs, at the expense of the tire feeling a little "squishy" in transitions. All my best times have been on 3rd and 4th runs after they have some heat in them and start gripping well. Hot weather really helps, so El Toro in July should be good.
As far as alignment, they could probably use a little more negative camber but I have left the car the same as on the Cup2s so far. I'm running -2.6F and -2.0R camber, 1/16" total front toe out, 3/16" total rear toe in. No caster correction, which it could probably use. If I was going to have an alignment done, I would give F&R another half a degree negative and put in some adjustable thrust arm bushings to dial caster back a little in the front.
Good luck against Kurt and Michael--those guys are quick!
C'ya,
TT
Thanks! I am hoping with these tires ill be competitive with them =)
09-08-2016, 08:55 PM
#1733
Rennlist Member
RE-71R in 245F and 305R
Just got my 19" wheels and RE-71R's in 245 and the new 305 rears. Can't wait to take them to the track which won't be for another month. It's still to damn hot at the tracks I run in So Cal. Has anyone tried these on there GT3's. Would love some info on tire temps that seem to be working for people.
09-11-2016, 07:05 PM
#1734
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Some of you may know that I've been concentrating a lot of my attention on the GT4 this past year, which is why I haven't added much to this thread over the past year. I'm getting close to hitting the goals I set for the GT4, and I hope to hit all of them before the end of the year. Once I do, I'm planning to step back into the GT3 and start hitting some new goals. One big reason I haven't driven the GT3 much this year is that I got sick and tired of paying for cup2s would only last 3 track days. It was just getting too expensive and too frustrating. The bridgestone RE71R tires are going to be released in OEM GT4 sizes at the end of this month. I have been running a 245/285 combo in 19" on the GT4 and think that they are the best track tire available right now for DE use. They grip just as well as the cup2, but they are much more consistent lap after lap than the cup2, and they are half the price. I think they will get one more day than the cup2 as well. The RE71R will not be released in OEM GT3 sizes, but I will run the 245/295 combo on the GT3 instead.
I ran a private track day this past friday at Thunderhill and did a few laps. It was pretty hot out, so but I got the hang of driving the car again fairly quickly. The GT4 has made me more comfortable driving at the edge, and has also improved my trailbraking skills since the car likes to understeer. I'm hoping to start setting some new PBs in the GT3 later this year. For now, a quick pic and video to prove I'm still here!
I ran a private track day this past friday at Thunderhill and did a few laps. It was pretty hot out, so but I got the hang of driving the car again fairly quickly. The GT4 has made me more comfortable driving at the edge, and has also improved my trailbraking skills since the car likes to understeer. I'm hoping to start setting some new PBs in the GT3 later this year. For now, a quick pic and video to prove I'm still here!
09-11-2016, 07:07 PM
#1735
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
One thing:
Has anybody had issues with their GT3 wheels bending easily? The car has had to have it's wheels straightened 6 times already. I talked to the wheel guy and he says it's common on these cars and I spoke to another friend who has confirmed he has had to fix his wheels 3 times already. Even though they are forged, they seem to bend easily. Another frustrating thing about the car.
Has anybody had issues with their GT3 wheels bending easily? The car has had to have it's wheels straightened 6 times already. I talked to the wheel guy and he says it's common on these cars and I spoke to another friend who has confirmed he has had to fix his wheels 3 times already. Even though they are forged, they seem to bend easily. Another frustrating thing about the car.
09-11-2016, 08:02 PM
#1737
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West Vancouver and San Francisco
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I had two wheels bend a little when I hit a pothole in Berkeley hills once. Never bent them on track, even though I had two blowouts from high curbs. Time for 19" wheels? I'd buy a set for sure if I knew I was keeping the car.
09-11-2016, 10:23 PM
#1738
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
09-12-2016, 12:39 AM
#1740
One thing:
Has anybody had issues with their GT3 wheels bending easily? The car has had to have it's wheels straightened 6 times already. I talked to the wheel guy and he says it's common on these cars and I spoke to another friend who has confirmed he has had to fix his wheels 3 times already. Even though they are forged, they seem to bend easily. Another frustrating thing about the car.
Has anybody had issues with their GT3 wheels bending easily? The car has had to have it's wheels straightened 6 times already. I talked to the wheel guy and he says it's common on these cars and I spoke to another friend who has confirmed he has had to fix his wheels 3 times already. Even though they are forged, they seem to bend easily. Another frustrating thing about the car.
