New Mclaren P13 a GT3 Competitor?
12-20-2014, 03:14 PM
#33
12-20-2014, 03:22 PM
#34
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I’ll throw in my few cents after putting over 6k miles on my MP4-12C.
There are a handful of quality issues with the McLaren as mentioned above, but they are all minor in the grand scheme of things. One important thing to differentiate is that all of the quality issues with the McLaren are what I would consider to be “annoyances” and not “problems.”
None of the wheels have fallen off, no engines have failed or caught fire, none of the cam bolts have backed out, clutches grenade, thermostats failed, glued coolant fittings popped out, bronze LSD clutch discs failed, etc.
The common issues with the 12C are: haze buildup in the front headlights, condensation buildup in the taillights, turn signal switch failure, weather stripping becoming unglued, infotainment unit bugs (which have largely been fixed with the updated unit). It is only a compliment to the car that these are the most serious issues faced!
What McLaren has achieved with the MP4-12C, as their first mass production vehicle, is nothing short of astounding.
On to how it drives:
The engine is like a turbocharged GT3. It's what the old GT2 wishes it was. The power delivery is brutal and the torque just builds and builds all the way to the 8500 rpm redline. Not like the disappointing output of a turbocharged Porsche which gives you a huge rush of torque at low rpm but doesn't motivate you to rev.
The suspension is sublime. The spread between the most comfortable and extreme settings is incredibly wide - like going from an S-class to a GT3 RS. I recently completed a 1,400 mile road trip in mine without any fatigue. It's also hydraulically linked on all four corners - this is similar to the "FRIC" technology that was banned in F1 this year, and it really helps control squat and dive under high rates of acceleration.
The transmission isn't as good as a PDK-S, but I find it more than up for the task. The 1-2 shift is a little delayed, but you learn to pull the paddle momentarily before you want the shift executed, and it does not become a problem. Under WOT, the shifts are, as the "seamless shift gearbox" title suggests, seamless. It is also very comfortable around town, like a good torque converter automatic. No drama and imperceptible shifts for the passenger.
The sound is wonderful. When you first hit the start button, you get an amazing bark, which no 911 can replicate. A GT3 sounds better at WOT, but the McLaren sounds better, more frequently, in typical day to day use. It sounds beautifully at low rpm and small throttle opening.
The frontal visibility is the best of any car I've sat in, due to the enormous windshield and dash that actually slopes down as it meets the windshield. The front spoiler has lots of front clearance so you don't sweat going off the paved surface and onto a dirt vista point.
It just looks, sounds, feels exotic, without taking anything from its usability, comfort, performance, and (at least so far) mechanical reliability. It feels special even sitting in it at a standstill.
What I think needs improvement:
Power does not really come on until 3k rpm. Sometimes when corners are exited at below 3k rpm, you momentarily bog down. Then again, a car like the GT3 has poor power at that engine speed, so it’s about a wash between the cars. I think if this upcoming McLaren utilizes smaller or VTG turbos, compared to the 12C, which will bring the boost threshold closer to 2k rpm, that it would be a flawless power plant.
The car has normal/sport/track settings for “handling” and “powertrain.” The electronic nannies can be intrusive as there is no way to adjust the dampers and traction control separately from each other - both are lumped into the “handling” mode. For example, if you are cruising in normal handling mode, and want to take a corner quickly, the amount of power available to you upon exit will be limited. On the other extreme, track handling mode is the only time where the car allows you to completely disengage all driver’s aids. The uselessness of this feature is that the McLaren’s track mode is even more extreme that a GT3’s sport damper mode, and completely unbearable on the street. The fix would be to have three *****: “dampers,” “traction control,” and “powertrain.” Generally speaking, sport mode is just on the money. Maybe the way the car is programmed is better for the perpetuation of the driver’s life, but it would be more fun with some modification.
It doesn't have the traction of a 911. This is physics at work - the engine isn't behind the rear wheels in a McLaren.
The headroom is limited for taller people, especially when fitted with the optional power/heated seats. My understanding is that the cabin will be larger in this new car, which is great news.
McLaren doesn't have a community and knowledge base as Porsche. Information such as track setup, maintenance, repairs, scan tools, etc isn't available. This should improve in time once the brand becomes more established, sells more cars, and gains more enthusiasts. For me, this is the biggest disappointment of my ownership. I'm a pretty hands on guy, I have build my own 4.0 engine for my GT3, there is no repair on a GT3 that I'm not tooled or prepared to perform, and I enjoy track days. With the McLaren, I feel a little helpless, and at the mercy of the dealer.
The dealer network needs to be expanded. I know that, you know that, McLaren knows that. It’s just a matter of time until this is executed. I’m fortunate to have not one, but three dealers in my backyard, so this does not affect me personally.
Bottom Line:
I'm anticipating the introduction of the new McLaren model more than the GT3 RS, and even I can't believe I'm saying that.
There are a handful of quality issues with the McLaren as mentioned above, but they are all minor in the grand scheme of things. One important thing to differentiate is that all of the quality issues with the McLaren are what I would consider to be “annoyances” and not “problems.”
None of the wheels have fallen off, no engines have failed or caught fire, none of the cam bolts have backed out, clutches grenade, thermostats failed, glued coolant fittings popped out, bronze LSD clutch discs failed, etc.
The common issues with the 12C are: haze buildup in the front headlights, condensation buildup in the taillights, turn signal switch failure, weather stripping becoming unglued, infotainment unit bugs (which have largely been fixed with the updated unit). It is only a compliment to the car that these are the most serious issues faced!
What McLaren has achieved with the MP4-12C, as their first mass production vehicle, is nothing short of astounding.
On to how it drives:
The engine is like a turbocharged GT3. It's what the old GT2 wishes it was. The power delivery is brutal and the torque just builds and builds all the way to the 8500 rpm redline. Not like the disappointing output of a turbocharged Porsche which gives you a huge rush of torque at low rpm but doesn't motivate you to rev.
The suspension is sublime. The spread between the most comfortable and extreme settings is incredibly wide - like going from an S-class to a GT3 RS. I recently completed a 1,400 mile road trip in mine without any fatigue. It's also hydraulically linked on all four corners - this is similar to the "FRIC" technology that was banned in F1 this year, and it really helps control squat and dive under high rates of acceleration.
The transmission isn't as good as a PDK-S, but I find it more than up for the task. The 1-2 shift is a little delayed, but you learn to pull the paddle momentarily before you want the shift executed, and it does not become a problem. Under WOT, the shifts are, as the "seamless shift gearbox" title suggests, seamless. It is also very comfortable around town, like a good torque converter automatic. No drama and imperceptible shifts for the passenger.
The sound is wonderful. When you first hit the start button, you get an amazing bark, which no 911 can replicate. A GT3 sounds better at WOT, but the McLaren sounds better, more frequently, in typical day to day use. It sounds beautifully at low rpm and small throttle opening.
The frontal visibility is the best of any car I've sat in, due to the enormous windshield and dash that actually slopes down as it meets the windshield. The front spoiler has lots of front clearance so you don't sweat going off the paved surface and onto a dirt vista point.
It just looks, sounds, feels exotic, without taking anything from its usability, comfort, performance, and (at least so far) mechanical reliability. It feels special even sitting in it at a standstill.
What I think needs improvement:
Power does not really come on until 3k rpm. Sometimes when corners are exited at below 3k rpm, you momentarily bog down. Then again, a car like the GT3 has poor power at that engine speed, so it’s about a wash between the cars. I think if this upcoming McLaren utilizes smaller or VTG turbos, compared to the 12C, which will bring the boost threshold closer to 2k rpm, that it would be a flawless power plant.
The car has normal/sport/track settings for “handling” and “powertrain.” The electronic nannies can be intrusive as there is no way to adjust the dampers and traction control separately from each other - both are lumped into the “handling” mode. For example, if you are cruising in normal handling mode, and want to take a corner quickly, the amount of power available to you upon exit will be limited. On the other extreme, track handling mode is the only time where the car allows you to completely disengage all driver’s aids. The uselessness of this feature is that the McLaren’s track mode is even more extreme that a GT3’s sport damper mode, and completely unbearable on the street. The fix would be to have three *****: “dampers,” “traction control,” and “powertrain.” Generally speaking, sport mode is just on the money. Maybe the way the car is programmed is better for the perpetuation of the driver’s life, but it would be more fun with some modification.
It doesn't have the traction of a 911. This is physics at work - the engine isn't behind the rear wheels in a McLaren.
The headroom is limited for taller people, especially when fitted with the optional power/heated seats. My understanding is that the cabin will be larger in this new car, which is great news.
McLaren doesn't have a community and knowledge base as Porsche. Information such as track setup, maintenance, repairs, scan tools, etc isn't available. This should improve in time once the brand becomes more established, sells more cars, and gains more enthusiasts. For me, this is the biggest disappointment of my ownership. I'm a pretty hands on guy, I have build my own 4.0 engine for my GT3, there is no repair on a GT3 that I'm not tooled or prepared to perform, and I enjoy track days. With the McLaren, I feel a little helpless, and at the mercy of the dealer.
The dealer network needs to be expanded. I know that, you know that, McLaren knows that. It’s just a matter of time until this is executed. I’m fortunate to have not one, but three dealers in my backyard, so this does not affect me personally.
Bottom Line:
I'm anticipating the introduction of the new McLaren model more than the GT3 RS, and even I can't believe I'm saying that.
12-20-2014, 03:26 PM
#35
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Leno is like the 1% of the 1%. He's a gear head himself and has his own on-staff full-time mechanic (two I believe), plus a garage that would make most men weak at the knees - not to mention his car collection in that garage.
If I could choose a passenger to drive cross-country, Leno would be on the very short list of possible candidates.
12-21-2014, 01:56 AM
#36
Burning Brakes
This is reasonably accurate. If still under 3 yr warranty, service is fantastic. They will flat bed your car within 150 miles round trip for any warranty issues. Just took advantage of this myself.
