should I break in? Picking her up in few hours
11-28-2014, 02:10 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
My dealer will probably sell my used GT3 with the same blurb he uses for all their used stock. One careful owner never seen the track etc lol!
Seriously I sometimes think PAG just put that stuff in the US owners manuals to play mind games with North Americans psych :-)
Seriously I sometimes think PAG just put that stuff in the US owners manuals to play mind games with North Americans psych :-)
11-28-2014, 02:42 AM
#17
Race Director
One thing I am not going to do is break in the car to tell the next buyer I did so when I sell the car. I'm going with this car is not being sold and I don't care about a next buyer that may never exist or may never ask me, "how did you break in the car?"
Dan (trusts Porsche warranty)
Dan (trusts Porsche warranty)
11-28-2014, 02:53 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Let's not be too literal, guys. The point of my example wasn't about having a story to tell the next buyer or to suggest that one would realistically find 2 cars exactly alike. But if the OP knows which car he would prefer in the hypothetical, then he knows whether he should do a traditional break-in or not. Simple as that.
And, if it turns out I have problems immediately after a hard and fast break in, it's time to call Porsche for a new engine sooner than later. I'm certain Porsche won't pull a Nick Murray on me after this car's history.
Dan (concludes a Paul Walker fast and furious is best for break-in)
11-28-2014, 03:12 AM
#19
Race Director
Sure, but, even looking at it that way, I would take the car that was broken in hard from the get go. If there are no oil consumption issues with a car broken in immediately, it will never have consumption issues. It will likely never have smoking issues as well.
And, if it turns out I have problems immediately after a hard and fast break in, it's time to call Porsche for a new engine sooner than later. I'm certain Porsche won't pull a Nick Murray on me after this car's history.
Dan (concludes a Paul Walker fast and furious is best for break-in)
And, if it turns out I have problems immediately after a hard and fast break in, it's time to call Porsche for a new engine sooner than later. I'm certain Porsche won't pull a Nick Murray on me after this car's history.
Dan (concludes a Paul Walker fast and furious is best for break-in)
You, OTOH, wouldn't be put off owning a car run hard right out of the box, for the reasons you stated and perhaps others. Fair enough.
You and I have made up our minds. The OP hasn't. I was trying to give him a thought experiment to help him get in touch with his inner mechanic, whichever side of the fence he might be on.
11-28-2014, 08:53 AM
#20
Interesting the EU gets different instructions than us "boys" in the US. My buddy took delivery in a 4.0 RS on the track in Germany. Guess what happen the pro driver that was assigned to him did a warm up lap, and you know what happen next full bore hot laps. Pulled over said your turn .......he had white nuckles.
Clearly my opinion, and a possible bad example. Take the kid that destroyed the P1 two days ago a 1.2M dollar car. If the break in is similar to Porsche USA 2000 miles he would have learned the character of the car. Clearly he was not driving 60 when it crashed, and a proper break in allows a new driver to gain some experience. I've had a ton of high performance cars, and never go outside my ability in any " new" car. Hit 250 miles in the GT3 which was a full tank of gas, and now I drive it like normal. Not like I stole it, but I hit 9k frequently in the right conditions. 2000 miles would take me a year to hit so that's clearly out of the question. Lately, when I spoke to the Porsche mechanic after installing my exhaust he said man go drive the car there will be no issues we tell the US customers to wait?? My particular dealer several of my buddies all buy from this dealership, and we frequently see the mechanics when we're in town because we are all car guys. We all have done the same, and the mechanics I would say have a clue on what's going on because they fix the cars. Again just my experience.
Clearly my opinion, and a possible bad example. Take the kid that destroyed the P1 two days ago a 1.2M dollar car. If the break in is similar to Porsche USA 2000 miles he would have learned the character of the car. Clearly he was not driving 60 when it crashed, and a proper break in allows a new driver to gain some experience. I've had a ton of high performance cars, and never go outside my ability in any " new" car. Hit 250 miles in the GT3 which was a full tank of gas, and now I drive it like normal. Not like I stole it, but I hit 9k frequently in the right conditions. 2000 miles would take me a year to hit so that's clearly out of the question. Lately, when I spoke to the Porsche mechanic after installing my exhaust he said man go drive the car there will be no issues we tell the US customers to wait?? My particular dealer several of my buddies all buy from this dealership, and we frequently see the mechanics when we're in town because we are all car guys. We all have done the same, and the mechanics I would say have a clue on what's going on because they fix the cars. Again just my experience.
11-28-2014, 09:19 AM
#21
Dan, I'd buy the car that had been broken in more easily. My cars have never used oil either, and I believe a traditional break-in also allows for parts in the engine, gearbox, and other mechanical subsystems to wear in properly. Issues with an improper break-in aren't likely to show up immediately, but rather in the long term. I intend to keep this car past the warranty period so long term reliability is an issue for me.
You, OTOH, wouldn't be put off owning a car run hard right out of the box, for the reasons you stated and perhaps others. Fair enough.
You and I have made up our minds. The OP hasn't. I was trying to give him a thought experiment to help him get in touch with his inner mechanic, whichever side of the fence he might be on.
You, OTOH, wouldn't be put off owning a car run hard right out of the box, for the reasons you stated and perhaps others. Fair enough.
You and I have made up our minds. The OP hasn't. I was trying to give him a thought experiment to help him get in touch with his inner mechanic, whichever side of the fence he might be on.
Scenario in the EU my buddy takes delivery of is new 4.0 RS by the way 600 copies produced. Brand spanking new they set him up with a professional driver who takes the keys, and they hit the track for a warm up to key the ties warm. Guess what's next you know it he goes full boar, and full rev doing a freaking hot lap and said this is how you drive the car.
Now my breakend, I was new to the GT3 traded in my 991S totally two different cars. I drive my cars about 200 miles a month so ummm 2000 on the breakend will not work for me. Drove like miss Daisey varying the rev for 250 miles, and the engine temp was nice and warm during all drives. Mechanically on a full tank of gas the engine will wear for the load that's produced. There is a reason you can use launch control in a Porsche over and over without failure. Now my M5 after two launches it will shut down due to heat.
Now a 550 miles I drive the car normal, and yes I hot 9000k when appropriate in the right conditions. I would call this a proper breakend for me, and I have never had an engine problem in anymof my cars.
By the way my friend with the 4.0 is a collector, and has of 30 Porsche's. His break end is 100 miles, and go .........
In closing the EU is told to do it one way, and we Americans get the I don't know what I'm doing break end which I think is necessary sometimes for drivers that will wrap the car around a tree and sue the manufactor. Good luck boys, and remember it's a car not a painting.
11-28-2014, 09:27 AM
#22
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These guys tend to know something:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...k-in-a-new-car
I had a 03 Z before my 08. The 03 was broken in with easy driving for the first 3k miles before I redlined to set rings. And, its engine was replaced due to excessive oil consumption. Once replaced, I drove the newly replaced engine like I stole it and, that new engine never had consumption issues. I did the same with my 08 when I got that new and, no issues.
I wasn't sure if I was going to break in the GT3 until today. I'm going with warmed up motor followed by some driving around Pasadena and then a 9k freeway on-ramp. Vary speeds until 1st oil change and drive her like I usually do. Sane in traffic, fast when not.
One thing I am not going to do is break in the car to tell the next buyer I did so when I sell the car. I'm going with this car is not being sold and I don't care about a next buyer that may never exist or may never ask me, "how did you break in the car?"
Dan (trusts Porsche warranty)
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...k-in-a-new-car
I had a 03 Z before my 08. The 03 was broken in with easy driving for the first 3k miles before I redlined to set rings. And, its engine was replaced due to excessive oil consumption. Once replaced, I drove the newly replaced engine like I stole it and, that new engine never had consumption issues. I did the same with my 08 when I got that new and, no issues.
I wasn't sure if I was going to break in the GT3 until today. I'm going with warmed up motor followed by some driving around Pasadena and then a 9k freeway on-ramp. Vary speeds until 1st oil change and drive her like I usually do. Sane in traffic, fast when not.
One thing I am not going to do is break in the car to tell the next buyer I did so when I sell the car. I'm going with this car is not being sold and I don't care about a next buyer that may never exist or may never ask me, "how did you break in the car?"
Dan (trusts Porsche warranty)
11-28-2014, 09:39 AM
#23
Interesting the EU gets different instructions than us "boys" in the US. My buddy took delivery in a 4.0 RS on the track in Germany. Guess what happen the pro driver that was assigned to him did a warm up lap, and you know what happen next full bore hot laps. Pulled over said your turn .......he had white nuckles.
Clearly my opinion, and a possible bad example. Take the kid that destroyed the P1 two days ago a 1.2M dollar car. If the break in is similar to Porsche USA 2000 miles he would have learned the character of the car. Clearly he was not driving 60 when it crashed, and a proper break in allows a new driver to gain some experience. I've had a ton of high performance cars, and never go outside my ability in any " new" car. Hit 250 miles in the GT3 which was a full tank of gas, and now I drive it like normal. Not like I stole it, but I hit 9k frequently in the right conditions. 2000 miles would take me a year to hit so that's clearly out of the question. Lately, when I spoke to the Porsche mechanic after installing my exhaust he said man go drive the car there will be no issues we tell the US customers to wait?? My particular dealer several of my buddies all buy from this dealership, and we frequently see the mechanics when we're in town because we are all car guys. We all have done the same, and the mechanics I would say have a clue on what's going on because they fix the cars. Again just my experience.
Clearly my opinion, and a possible bad example. Take the kid that destroyed the P1 two days ago a 1.2M dollar car. If the break in is similar to Porsche USA 2000 miles he would have learned the character of the car. Clearly he was not driving 60 when it crashed, and a proper break in allows a new driver to gain some experience. I've had a ton of high performance cars, and never go outside my ability in any " new" car. Hit 250 miles in the GT3 which was a full tank of gas, and now I drive it like normal. Not like I stole it, but I hit 9k frequently in the right conditions. 2000 miles would take me a year to hit so that's clearly out of the question. Lately, when I spoke to the Porsche mechanic after installing my exhaust he said man go drive the car there will be no issues we tell the US customers to wait?? My particular dealer several of my buddies all buy from this dealership, and we frequently see the mechanics when we're in town because we are all car guys. We all have done the same, and the mechanics I would say have a clue on what's going on because they fix the cars. Again just my experience.
11-28-2014, 09:53 AM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Wait, you were on Polaris Leader that arrived on 11/20. Mine was on Glovis Courage that arrived on 11/24. I think I have a few more days of waiting.
Enjoy your delivery!
Last edited by hfm; 11-28-2014 at 10:18 AM.
11-28-2014, 10:34 AM
#25
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Yes, right, Polaris Leader. They're installing SW bypass, new tips, clear sides and a gas cap so I can't go in there until 3pm or so.
Time...will...move...so...slow...today...
May the next few days pass quickly for you my friend!
PS I think I know what on-ramp you have visualized for 9K...it's the one that takes you north on the 210 where it crosses the 134. There's a good 3-4 miles where you can stand on it for a bit. You may see me on that same stretch of road soon!
Time...will...move...so...slow...today...
May the next few days pass quickly for you my friend!
PS I think I know what on-ramp you have visualized for 9K...it's the one that takes you north on the 210 where it crosses the 134. There's a good 3-4 miles where you can stand on it for a bit. You may see me on that same stretch of road soon!
11-28-2014, 11:08 AM
#26
Interesting the EU gets different instructions than us "boys" in the US. My buddy took delivery in a 4.0 RS on the track in Germany. Guess what happen the pro driver that was assigned to him did a warm up lap, and you know what happen next full bore hot laps. Pulled over said your turn .......he had white nuckles.
Clearly my opinion, and a possible bad example. Take the kid that destroyed the P1 two days ago a 1.2M dollar car. If the break in is similar to Porsche USA 2000 miles he would have learned the character of the car. Clearly he was not driving 60 when it crashed, and a proper break in allows a new driver to gain some experience.
Clearly my opinion, and a possible bad example. Take the kid that destroyed the P1 two days ago a 1.2M dollar car. If the break in is similar to Porsche USA 2000 miles he would have learned the character of the car. Clearly he was not driving 60 when it crashed, and a proper break in allows a new driver to gain some experience.
The engineering logic of seating the rings is absolutely rock solid. But so is the business case for denying this. Understand this and everything makes sense. Not everyone can process this though, and so it just keeps going round and round, some people thinking one or the other has to be right, when in reality BOTH ARE!
11-28-2014, 11:11 AM
#27
This is the real reason behind the factory line: liability. The truth is the best thing you can do is warm it up then go flat out yes all the way to redline over and over again as much as possible the first 20-200 miles. But putting that in an owners manual is a legal death sentence for your business. So Porsche covers their liability exposure in the manual and official comments, but when you go to pick yours up the factory driver hammers it because he knows there's no harm and the suits aren't watching anyway.
The engineering logic of seating the rings is absolutely rock solid. But so is the business case for denying this. Understand this and everything makes sense. Not everyone can process this though, and so it just keeps going round and round, some people thinking one or the other has to be right, when in reality BOTH ARE!
The engineering logic of seating the rings is absolutely rock solid. But so is the business case for denying this. Understand this and everything makes sense. Not everyone can process this though, and so it just keeps going round and round, some people thinking one or the other has to be right, when in reality BOTH ARE!
Spot on no arguments from me on this one. It's legal talk I do it all the time in my business
11-28-2014, 11:40 AM
#28
This is the real reason behind the factory line: liability. The truth is the best thing you can do is warm it up then go flat out yes all the way to redline over and over again as much as possible the first 20-200 miles. But putting that in an owners manual is a legal death sentence for your business. So Porsche covers their liability exposure in the manual and official comments, but when you go to pick yours up the factory driver hammers it because he knows there's no harm and the suits aren't watching anyway.
The engineering logic of seating the rings is absolutely rock solid. But so is the business case for denying this. Understand this and everything makes sense. Not everyone can process this though, and so it just keeps going round and round, some people thinking one or the other has to be right, when in reality BOTH ARE!
The engineering logic of seating the rings is absolutely rock solid. But so is the business case for denying this. Understand this and everything makes sense. Not everyone can process this though, and so it just keeps going round and round, some people thinking one or the other has to be right, when in reality BOTH ARE!
What I find questionable are all the various break in types (not talking about seating rings in 200 miles as I know this to be true in many cases, thank you for the good advice), i.e. drive for x amount of miles, incrementally increase rpms at x mileage markers, then let her rip at a predetermined marker below the manual recommended 2k. How was said marker determined? These are simply a creation of the respective owner.
I am completely open to experienced engine builder opinions, but do not wish to break in my engine based on what I feel may be the best. And, this may fall on deaf ears, but I would NEVER listen what the sales person tells me; unless he builds race engines on the side. Nor will I listen to what many Porsche techs tell me unless they have actual Porsche engine building experience. Many techs although very knowledgable are only offering their opinion regarding break in. If they can actually share true knowledge learned from a credible source, i.e. Porsche AG tech, then it's just an opinion.
Yes, the rings seating within 200-250 miles is a known fact on many engines. Real question here (being sincere, I am asking): is that still true with today's tight manufacturing tolerances, assembly processes and materials? I would prefer irrefutable evidence from a knowledgable source before I feel willing to break an engine in differently than what the manual reads.
I owned my share of high HP cars, crotch rockets, and a radical hand built Harley engine, (not as many as many here, but a fair share) and have never had reliability issues nor high oil consumption. none of these vehicles lacked in performance in any way. Most , if not all, very extremely fast in relative terms. All were broken in by manufacturer recommendations, one of which was a GT3.
End of the day, if I were to guess based on what I know about engines, I'd go for your assertion. I just need more tangible proof.
Last edited by 911dev; 11-28-2014 at 01:56 PM.
11-28-2014, 02:25 PM
#30
Well crap, I just read this and am re-evaluating.
http://yel.pca.org/porsche-engine-break-in/
Dan (is annoyed when indecisive)
http://yel.pca.org/porsche-engine-break-in/
Dan (is annoyed when indecisive)
The article is dated 2011. I do not believe they dyno every engine anymore, although I could be mistaken. Regardless, the basic fundamentals are there.
Mike in Cali will appreciate the four paragraph from the bottom.