Zucc

Oh MrSullivan at some point it is better to leave well enough alone. Once again you bring up issues that have nothing to do with a Porsche dealer selling cars over MSRP. Of course there are Dealer Sales and Service agreements that dealers have to sign. Not to mention that in an earlier post you ran off a list of infractions that would violate state and federal laws. Again, nothing to do with the matter we are discussing.

Every manufacturer frowns on dealers that charge over MSRP. The fact is that most dealers in this country would do back flips to get anywhere near MSRP on a new car. Over MSRP deals are few and far between.

This does not, however, prevent a dealer from asking over or selling over MSRP if he has a willing buyer. You have seen post upon post of dealers trying to sell over MSRP. There is even a list on Rennlist of dealers that are asking over MSRP. Your "out" is that they don't always enforce this "agreement".

Ok, they don't always enforce it. Can you give me ONE example in the last 10 years where they did enforce it. Heck, I'll even accept one from a non- Porsche dealer!

I'll help you out. The only franchise that even comes close to having such an agreement is Scion with their "Pure Price" strategy. All it says is that you have to sell the car for the price that your listed on your website or other advertising. Again, the dealer can choose any price he wants. Over MSRP, MSRP, under MSRP, $1000 under invoice, whatever. The theory being that all customers get the same price at that dealership without negotiating.

They make no secret about this and advertise their "Pure Price" strategy.

If Porsche has a dealer agreement or rule against charging over MSRP why don't they advertise that? Seems like a good selling point and like you said the dealer risks loosing his franchise if he doesn't abide by this rule.

As far as lying, you are the one that contradicted me AFTER I made a statement that there is no such agreement. So basically you called me a liar in your first post.

I would have probably have gotten mad if I respected your opinion on this matter.

I'll make you a deal. I'll concede that Porsche does not like for dealers to charge over MSRP if you'll concede that there is no written agreement prohibiting dealers from doing so.

LAGinz

Yeah, the allocation openings at MSRP were in southern California as were the inventory pieces at over MSRP. Didn't report anything to Porsche--just told dealers I was uninterested at buying at over MSRP. There were at least 5 dealers asking more than MSRP on inventory GT3s.

Zucc

Impossible. They must have not read their dealer agreement. Looks like 5 dealers are getting ready to loose their franchises!

If I were you I would meet with the Dealer/ Owner first thing in the morning and point out this oversight to him. Everybody knows that owning a Porsche dealership is a license to print money. I'm sure that he will be so happy that you kept him from loosing his franchise that he will probably give you a brand new GT3 for free!

LAGinz

To be clear, I'm really not taking "sides" in all of this. Just stating my experience.

mrsullivan

gonna try to give up again...

but would love to hear from someone that actually PAID over MSRP for a Porsche, especially if they made it known to Porsche.... and the response was "tough - dealers can charge whatever they want, we have nothing in writing the prohibits them from doing so".... that's the assertion here, right?

Zucc

I would like to hear as well but for me I can't imagine buying car from a dealer that I am mad enough about to report to Porsche after I buy the car. Maybe its just me but there is no way I am spending money with ANY dealer if I feel bad enough about the transaction to report them. I just wouldn't buy a car from them. If all the dealers of that make were exactly the same, I would just buy a different brand or buy a used car.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I am not entering to any transaction where I am not happy with the deal.

MarcusG

No less than 4 dealerships around me in L.A. offered me an actual car, not an allocation for $15-20k over MSRP. Why would we make that up?

The problem is anyone happy to pay over MSRP doesn't frequent forums like this. It's the whales and the Justin Biebers that do just that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with simple supply and demand. It's America the last time I checked. This has been going on since the beginning of time. You don't think Porsche North America wouldn't shut down a dealers allocations if they didn't approve? Everyone knows that dealerships that out perform other dealerships get perks. That's how it works. Auto Gallery in Woodland Hills is a perfect example of this. If you want something and have the dough, that dealer can get it for you. Huge amounts of inventory go through that place.

mrsullivan

if you read the thread carefully (I know, its painful, its long), no one said anything about anyone making anything up... I know dealers try to charge over MSRP.... I simply stated that it is not policy, it is prohibited, and I disagree that PCNA just turns a blind eye to it... I think that there are varying degrees of impact of doing so, I also think there is a lot of hype on this topic...I'm not saying that (in particular) southern cali dealers don't try to get extra $. I know they do. But can we hear from someone that actually transacted over MSRP? Is that such a unique cohort that none of them are here? Or maybe from a dealer. There are several of them here. They could come on here and tell us that there is no agreement with Porsche to prohibit this?

In the end, I suspect the truth is somewhere in between. I think Zuuc is right that this happens and I don't know the legal teeth on the contracts. I am not a lawyer. But I also don't think that its technically permitted by PCNA. And I still submit that if a customer called or wrote to PCNA that a dealer was charging them over MSRP, PCNA would intervene and they would pay MSRP, not more.

And none of this has anything to do with supply/demand/apple pie, etc. We all know its America and we all know what a free market economy is... we are having a different conversation about requirements that OEMs put on their resellers regarding the sales experience with customers, etc.

Zucc

Good points MarcusG. If your customer base includes pro athletes, movie stars and entertainers, why would you not charge over MSRP? If a pro athlete signs a 5yr, 50 million dollar contract and wants to buy a GT3 this weekend, I doubt he really cares about paying 20k over. He will probably get outstanding service and will become a repeat customer. We may think he is stupid for paying over MSRP but in reality it probably makes better financial sense for him to spend 20k over for a car than it would for most of us to pay 20k under!

Why would the most profitable automobile manufacturer in the world be upset with dealers making money as long as they are outperforming their market and their CSI scores are in line?

Business 101 as far as I am concerned.

Maverick787

Actually most athletes pay MSRP or less because of their agents have massive volume, and buying power. I use to represent an athlete, and yes they get perks we will never get and they have a ton of cash. The folks that pay over just can't wait, and in some cases paying a monthly but good cash flow. It's a trick bag on who pays over vs. Not.

mrsullivan

CSI scores are a joke, PCNA knows that, and they usually have no statistical correlation to customer repurchase rates, share of garage, etc... which are much better indicators... There is the matter of the dealerships that are following policy losing out on sales, there is the matter of customers equating a bad "I want over MSRP" experience with Porsche, not with the dealer and getting an Aston Martin instead, etc. I concede that Zucc put it right when he said that Porsche has a policy against it, they frown on it, but when it comes to enforcement, obviously it happens. I would just ask people to separate "these 5 dealers are asking over MSRP" from "these 5 people paid over MSRP" and I still believe that if a California buyer called up PCNA and told them a local dealer was not honoring the MSRP, that the dealer would be compelled by PCNA to sell at MSRP. At least based on my conversations and observations....

jlanka

Hey now!

mrsullivan

LOL... there is a picture we can all align on

LAGinz

Aha!! Now I see where the premium comes in.

Zucc

I just got off the phone with PCNA and asked her if Porsche had any rule against dealers that charge over MSRP. She said no, that many markets were different and they were free to charge what they want since they are independent business's

Forthcoming apologies will be accepted.