GTS
10-08-2014, 01:25 AM
#31
10-08-2014, 01:26 AM
#32
Nordschleife Master
10-08-2014, 01:27 AM
#33
Nordschleife Master
10-08-2014, 01:30 AM
#34
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The GTS will probably have 6-8% discounts right off the bat meaning the delta is close to 25k than 15.
- Better looking back-end without cheap boy-racer spoiler. Every GT3 should have had a carbon spoiler like the RS.
- Better looking front-end without large overhang.
- Rear seats
- No rear wheel steering which some people don't want.
- Manual transmission
- No centerlocks. I'll take cast 5-lugs over forged centerlocks for a street car every day of the week.
The only thing I'd want from the GT3 is the motor and suspension and for 25k I would say they'd be worth it. Unfortunately that's not an option so pick your poison.
- Better looking back-end without cheap boy-racer spoiler. Every GT3 should have had a carbon spoiler like the RS.
- Better looking front-end without large overhang.
- Rear seats
- No rear wheel steering which some people don't want.
- Manual transmission
- No centerlocks. I'll take cast 5-lugs over forged centerlocks for a street car every day of the week.
The only thing I'd want from the GT3 is the motor and suspension and for 25k I would say they'd be worth it. Unfortunately that's not an option so pick your poison.
10-08-2014, 01:33 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
I was going to say, there seems to be quite a few on track. I think the perception is due to the PDK-S. Some folks will never get over it, which I understand. It just takes a drive or two, and I think most would be converted.
10-08-2014, 02:24 AM
#40
10-08-2014, 02:24 AM
#41
Liebe Zu Ihm...
Re: the so-called 'halo' features like PDK-S and Rear Axle Steering, it has been mostly me that has been stirring that tasty pot! For this forum's general information, the recent discussion of the gts in the blogsphere started when Jonny Lieberman of Motor Trend posted this on Twitter on August 21st:
"Jonny LiebermanVerified account
@mt_loverman
Hot Porsche Scoop: we'll see the 911 GTS at the LA Show. But the chassis code will be 992, not 991"
By mid-September, the rumor of the gts at the LA Auto Show had gotten some steam at the 991 forum & elsewhere. So I tried to add some Carmel 'common sense' into this one gts thread at Rennlist:
...I don't buy the LA Auto Show announcement hype, period. End of story.
a) Why on earth would PAG release a MY2015 gts when the facelift will appear by spring of next year and the gts will be an important future product in the lineup!
b)And why would PAG reveal the facelift .2 991 (or as some are calling it - the 992) in early November when their dealers world-wide have the task of selling pre-face lift MY2015 .1 991's for the next 9 months? That would be downright stupid!
So I have my doubts.
Here is my take on this subject. I think something is brewing at PAG right now. And we don't yet know the whole story. They seem to be phasing out the .1 991 gt3. And the .1 991 gt3 RS is supposed to be announced soon...but in very limited quantities. I have a theory on all of this. I goes as follows. For reasons we don't yet quite know (could be related to the gt3 engine), PAG will transfer some of the technology developed for the 991 gt3 into a more mainstream 911 model! That model will be the new 991 'gts'. It will have 'rear axle steering'. That is key! It will have a stronger engine than the x51 option. In effect, it will be a sort-of-sequal to the base 991 gt3 ...but in a more mainstream product call the '991 gts' and with a more reliable motor! This will be an important product for PAG and will raise the bar for the standard 991 product line. It makes no sense for them to do this special 'gts' model on the pre-face lift .1 MY2015 model with the limited time remaining between November and June of next year. This would only make sense as a .2 991 post-face lift model, coming out early in calendar year 2015 as a MY2016. That is what my crystal ball says. And I was raised by Romani Gypsies...so that is all I can say at the moment. But I have been wrong before. My wife reminds me of that everyday. And I could be wrong again. So stay tune...
a) Why on earth would PAG release a MY2015 gts when the facelift will appear by spring of next year and the gts will be an important future product in the lineup!
b)And why would PAG reveal the facelift .2 991 (or as some are calling it - the 992) in early November when their dealers world-wide have the task of selling pre-face lift MY2015 .1 991's for the next 9 months? That would be downright stupid!
So I have my doubts.
Here is my take on this subject. I think something is brewing at PAG right now. And we don't yet know the whole story. They seem to be phasing out the .1 991 gt3. And the .1 991 gt3 RS is supposed to be announced soon...but in very limited quantities. I have a theory on all of this. I goes as follows. For reasons we don't yet quite know (could be related to the gt3 engine), PAG will transfer some of the technology developed for the 991 gt3 into a more mainstream 911 model! That model will be the new 991 'gts'. It will have 'rear axle steering'. That is key! It will have a stronger engine than the x51 option. In effect, it will be a sort-of-sequal to the base 991 gt3 ...but in a more mainstream product call the '991 gts' and with a more reliable motor! This will be an important product for PAG and will raise the bar for the standard 991 product line. It makes no sense for them to do this special 'gts' model on the pre-face lift .1 MY2015 model with the limited time remaining between November and June of next year. This would only make sense as a .2 991 post-face lift model, coming out early in calendar year 2015 as a MY2016. That is what my crystal ball says. And I was raised by Romani Gypsies...so that is all I can say at the moment. But I have been wrong before. My wife reminds me of that everyday. And I could be wrong again. So stay tune...
But soon, we started hearing stuff from usually reliable sources...some actually posted at the forum by me:
"Confirmation (off-the-record) that 991 GTS will first appear as a late MY2015! (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5)
Z356"
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8356...te-my2015.html
And finally the model's embargo was lifted and the gts was announced today!
Obviously, PAG is not taking 'common sense' (at least my Carmel kind) into account and they have decided to bring out this gts part's bin exercise almost six months after the first MY2015 991's (non-gt3s) started rolling down the line in June of 2014! And remember that the face lifted .2 991 (992?) MY2016 will start production next Spring in Zuffenhausen! But Porsche doesn't care about any of this. All engines steam ahead...send the gts out NOW! Obviously, my 'old' crystal ball is cracked and my parents aren't real Gypsies after all! But that doesn't stop me from stepping out further on this flimsy, thin limb! Here is my latest thoughts on the subject - written today just BEFORE PAG released the official announcement on the '15 GTS - as I responded to a post by Aerowerke on the 991 forum:
I don't think we will see any technical improvement over the current MY2015 regular 991 in this late intro .1 GTS model.
So it begs the question in what model(s) will PAG allow the new technology first introduced in the 2014 991 gt3 (some of it also later introduced in the top-of-the-line 911 Turbo) to trickle-down-into? Will it be some 'lesser' models AFTER the facelift in MY2016? I am talking here about PDK-Sport, upgraded steering calibrations, Rear Axle Steering, etc. I don't anticipate we will see a MY2016 .2 991 gt3. If that model continues (depends on Euro Cycle 6 emissions & new US regulations), it will most likely re-appear as a MY2017 in .2 facelift form! But technology is moving so quickly (Porsche will need next to concentrate on the mid-engine 960/988 platform as that is the 'FE-Fi' - Ferrari Fighter - designed to be more competitive at the track than the current 911-based gt3 platform!) that it makes little sense NOT to integrate this brilliant technology developed for the more expensive .1 gt3/Turbo (actually some came out of the 918 program!) models into the regular .2 991's for what little remains of this chassis cycle (MY2016, MY2017, My2018 at minimum). In my opinion, it's simple a case of 'use it or loose it'. And I will bet they'll use it to breath new interest & life into the .2 991 (or 992 - whatever they call it). So, it would not surprise me to see this innovative technology on some of the MY2016 .2 991 S model (at minimum)!
So although I am quite disappointed that this upcoming MY2015 GTS will not incorporate this newer gt3/Turbo technology, I am quite confident that we will soon see it on some of the 'standard' 991 models coming up next Spring with the .2 face lift MY2016!
*Turbo as currently define '911 Turbo and 911 Turbo S'. Potentially we will see 'smaller' Turbos in the .2 991 line-up but that is not what I am talking about reference to the other technology (Pdk Sport, RAS, etc).
.
So it begs the question in what model(s) will PAG allow the new technology first introduced in the 2014 991 gt3 (some of it also later introduced in the top-of-the-line 911 Turbo) to trickle-down-into? Will it be some 'lesser' models AFTER the facelift in MY2016? I am talking here about PDK-Sport, upgraded steering calibrations, Rear Axle Steering, etc. I don't anticipate we will see a MY2016 .2 991 gt3. If that model continues (depends on Euro Cycle 6 emissions & new US regulations), it will most likely re-appear as a MY2017 in .2 facelift form! But technology is moving so quickly (Porsche will need next to concentrate on the mid-engine 960/988 platform as that is the 'FE-Fi' - Ferrari Fighter - designed to be more competitive at the track than the current 911-based gt3 platform!) that it makes little sense NOT to integrate this brilliant technology developed for the more expensive .1 gt3/Turbo (actually some came out of the 918 program!) models into the regular .2 991's for what little remains of this chassis cycle (MY2016, MY2017, My2018 at minimum). In my opinion, it's simple a case of 'use it or loose it'. And I will bet they'll use it to breath new interest & life into the .2 991 (or 992 - whatever they call it). So, it would not surprise me to see this innovative technology on some of the MY2016 .2 991 S model (at minimum)!
So although I am quite disappointed that this upcoming MY2015 GTS will not incorporate this newer gt3/Turbo technology, I am quite confident that we will soon see it on some of the 'standard' 991 models coming up next Spring with the .2 face lift MY2016!
*Turbo as currently define '911 Turbo and 911 Turbo S'. Potentially we will see 'smaller' Turbos in the .2 991 line-up but that is not what I am talking about reference to the other technology (Pdk Sport, RAS, etc).
.
So will I be proven wrong once again? I know some of you folks are betting against me here. But let's wait and see! Remember, we are all in this together...Liebe Zu Ihm!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
10-08-2014, 02:27 AM
#42
At the end of the day the 991 GT3 is MUCH closer to the 991 GTS than it is to the previous generations of GT3. If you find the street price difference of ~$25,000 in value out of the suspension, transmission, and engine improvements and don't need the utility of the backseats nor care about options like audio upgrades or the manual transmission than by all means be thrilled with your GT3. Truth be told the cars really aren't that different anymore.
On another note all three females I showed the GT3 to when I was considering purchasing one said it was ugly and I should just keep my car. Let me know when the GT3 is offered with factory plastic wing delete.
10-08-2014, 03:19 AM
#43
Race Director
Except that historical buyers of the GT3 aren't necessarily the same buyers of the 991 GT3 anymore. I would bet the vast majority of 991 GT3 buyers are closer to the 911 GTS buyers than 997.2 GT3 buyers..........At the end of the day the 991 GT3 is MUCH closer to the 991 GTS than it is to the previous generations of GT3. If you find the street price difference of ~$25,000 in value out of the suspension, transmission, and engine improvements and don't need the utility of the backseats nor care about options like audio upgrades or the manual transmission than by all means be thrilled with your GT3. Truth be told the cars really aren't that different anymore.
Never mind that PDK-S has impressed virtually everyone who's actually driven with it as opposed to speculated about it. I'd just like to understand why anyone would drive their 991 PDK in automatic 90% of the time, when it's the least involving and least fun way to use the gearbox.
10-08-2014, 03:34 AM
#44
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destaccado wrote:
The factory "plastic" wing on the 997.2 GT3 is $14,000 if you want to buy one. Its VERY functional and adjustable, just like the RS. Its Fiberglass which is just like Carbon Fiber, just a different color. Personally I like the NON GT3 wing better its not so showy as the RS and really for street and light track work, you dont need the extra down force of the RS wing.
As far as the "manual Transmission " goes. Most GT3 drivers are of the opinion that most modern race cars now use some sort of sequential transmission or something like the PDK. The PDK came off the LeMans winner from 1984. No reason for the GT3 not to use whats in modern racers. This is my second PDK and I think its a blast.
This GTS is just like the 50th anniversary edition only not limited-X51
Let me know when the GT3 is offered with factory plastic wing delete.
As far as the "manual Transmission " goes. Most GT3 drivers are of the opinion that most modern race cars now use some sort of sequential transmission or something like the PDK. The PDK came off the LeMans winner from 1984. No reason for the GT3 not to use whats in modern racers. This is my second PDK and I think its a blast.
This GTS is just like the 50th anniversary edition only not limited-X51
10-08-2014, 03:39 AM
#45
