View Poll Results: PCCB or Full Leather?
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll
Full Leather or PCCB?
10-05-2014, 08:40 PM
#16
C. Both
Ok if you can only pick A or B then get leather interior. Main benefit of pccb is no dust. And it looks good from outside. Small performance bang for a lot of buck. Leather looks good from where you'll be inside. Plus then it matches your calipers. Lots of bang for your buck.
Ok if you can only pick A or B then get leather interior. Main benefit of pccb is no dust. And it looks good from outside. Small performance bang for a lot of buck. Leather looks good from where you'll be inside. Plus then it matches your calipers. Lots of bang for your buck.
10-05-2014, 08:42 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
and yes, I think we can all agree, that no one needs PCCB... and probably don't even need as capable brakes as the standard... we can also probably agree that you don't NEED extra stitching and a piece of leather on the dash...
10-05-2014, 08:42 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
10-05-2014, 08:46 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
50% lighter than iron, is what I have read... is this wrong? That seems like a lot to me, given where its located, isn't that like 40-50lbs? and yes, I think we can all agree, that no one needs PCCB... and probably don't even need as capable brakes as the standard... we can also probably agree that you don't NEED extra stitching and a piece of leather on the dash...
10-05-2014, 08:48 PM
#20
Gotta concur with Mike and Sully on this, especially on the unsprung weight issue. I had a car several years ago on which I foolishly swapped out the factory for aftermarket wheels which were 8 lbs heavier per corner. It made a notable difference in steering responsiveness on the street.
10-05-2014, 09:00 PM
#21
Drifting
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I cannot understand these comments such as "if you are going to track the car heavily, then ditch the PCCBs". That's extremely short sighted. If you indeed track the car often, you'll be going through rotors at such a clip, that it really won't matter (assuming you're driving the car at or near its full potential).
My last car had PCCBs, as I wanted them. The rotors came off the car as it became a track car, sat on the shelf while cast iron rotors became the norm, then the PCCBs went back on as it retired from track duty. The car is more desirable on the secondary market with PCCBs, so I see it as a no-brainer.
My last car had PCCBs, as I wanted them. The rotors came off the car as it became a track car, sat on the shelf while cast iron rotors became the norm, then the PCCBs went back on as it retired from track duty. The car is more desirable on the secondary market with PCCBs, so I see it as a no-brainer.
10-05-2014, 09:07 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
No flame here. You're exactly right; it's a performance car so you go with the performance option if it's a choice between that and dress up. If the car is being used for heavy tracking then there are different issues to consider as has been pointed out many times.
The argument that there is no reason enjoy the benefit of PCCB's in a car driven mostly on the street is a non-starter, IMHO. If that's the case why bother with a GT3, 475HP, RWS, and <100ms shifts in the first place. Buy a nice Carrera Cab, fill it with leather, and call it a day.
The argument that there is no reason enjoy the benefit of PCCB's in a car driven mostly on the street is a non-starter, IMHO. If that's the case why bother with a GT3, 475HP, RWS, and <100ms shifts in the first place. Buy a nice Carrera Cab, fill it with leather, and call it a day.
10-05-2014, 09:10 PM
#23
Race Director
It would be interesting if someone had an exact weight for the cast iron 380mm stock rotors so we could compare and resolve this question once and for all since the actual weight in grams of each CC rotor is stamped on the hub.
Anyway Porsche claims a weigh reduction of 50% which has generally been accepted in the past as about 10lbs per wheel. The new PCCB's are bigger than the cast iron rotors front and rear, so the weight difference is more like 6-7 lbs in front and 9 lbs in the rear but that's still a lot when you're talking unsprung weight. Guys rave about getting a wheel that's 3 or 4 lbs lighter; the weight difference with the brakes is double that or more. We argue about relatively minor differences all the time; in steering feel, shift speed, cornering precision, etc. that "most folks" would never notice. But we do notice those things, so I wouldn't dismiss the difference out of hand.
Again, it's not about CC versus CI brakes. It's about spending money on CC brakes OR leather, FCOL. In a GT3. Assuming suitability for use, it's a no brainer, IMVHO.
Anyway Porsche claims a weigh reduction of 50% which has generally been accepted in the past as about 10lbs per wheel. The new PCCB's are bigger than the cast iron rotors front and rear, so the weight difference is more like 6-7 lbs in front and 9 lbs in the rear but that's still a lot when you're talking unsprung weight. Guys rave about getting a wheel that's 3 or 4 lbs lighter; the weight difference with the brakes is double that or more. We argue about relatively minor differences all the time; in steering feel, shift speed, cornering precision, etc. that "most folks" would never notice. But we do notice those things, so I wouldn't dismiss the difference out of hand.
Again, it's not about CC versus CI brakes. It's about spending money on CC brakes OR leather, FCOL. In a GT3. Assuming suitability for use, it's a no brainer, IMVHO.
10-05-2014, 09:17 PM
#25
Race Director
To each his own. There is so much controversy over PCCB vs cast iron that I don't think one can automatically declare PCCB a must have option for the GT3. There are as many arguments for them as there are against them. We know from objective research that stopping distance is not any better with PCCBs. So, from a performance perspective it boils down to unsprung weight. Can the average owner feel the "unsprung" weight difference in their daily drive? If its such a critical performance option why aren't they on Cup cars? Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning anyone's decision about their options. Everyone has the right to choose what they want for their cars. I just don't think its fair to challenge someone's decision to purchase a GT3 because they want to apply their $10K differently than you. Just my .02.
First we don't have an objective comparison between the new PCCB's and new cast iron rotors on a 991 GT3, AFAIK. If some one has that I'd love to see it. Second, I believe Cup cars are restricted in brake type and wheel size so I'm not sure that's a good standard. There is a replacement cost issue with Cup cars which is a valid one when making the comparison. I hesitate to bring up the "I know someone" thing again, but the fact is that one of the guys on the 991 GT3 development team told me that if I got one option it should be PCCB's. Take that with a grain of salt if you like.
I agree, everyone has a right to make their own choice and I didn't mean to be critical of anyone. The OP asked for an opinion on whether to go with leather or PCCB's and I gave mine. I didn't mean to be critical any more than those who suggested that the OP bag the PCCB's. It's all good....
10-05-2014, 09:25 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
crumudgedy corner kicking in here...
are you serious?
you're going to avoid a performance option on the GT3 that reduces unsprung weight, improves braking, eliminates brake dust, etc. because you are torn on whether or not you need added stitching in the interior? If you are tracking the car a lot, you should get the iron brakes regardless, which has been discussed here ad nauseum. But if you are only doing a few track events per year, to me this is a no brainer. I am quite certain I will get flamed for this post. I am prepared. There is nothing wrong with getting what you want, and for some they want more luxury in the car. Understood. But I think this is the first time I read of someone deciding between the extra leather/stitching and PCCBs. To me that is a different question. Now personally, I don't care if Porsche was making me the car for free, I just don't like all the extra leather and stitching (especially red). I feel that it makes the interior look so damn busy. There are already so many angles, different materials, etc. in that interior. To add more just makes it look gawdy. To each their own. But when someone says its that or PCCBs... well, just had to voice an opinion. Thanks for indulging
look at this... bleh...
are you serious?
you're going to avoid a performance option on the GT3 that reduces unsprung weight, improves braking, eliminates brake dust, etc. because you are torn on whether or not you need added stitching in the interior? If you are tracking the car a lot, you should get the iron brakes regardless, which has been discussed here ad nauseum. But if you are only doing a few track events per year, to me this is a no brainer. I am quite certain I will get flamed for this post. I am prepared. There is nothing wrong with getting what you want, and for some they want more luxury in the car. Understood. But I think this is the first time I read of someone deciding between the extra leather/stitching and PCCBs. To me that is a different question. Now personally, I don't care if Porsche was making me the car for free, I just don't like all the extra leather and stitching (especially red). I feel that it makes the interior look so damn busy. There are already so many angles, different materials, etc. in that interior. To add more just makes it look gawdy. To each their own. But when someone says its that or PCCBs... well, just had to voice an opinion. Thanks for indulging
look at this... bleh...
10-05-2014, 09:33 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Sorry, Lodi, I posted above before I saw your post or I would have replied at the same time.
First we don't have an objective comparison between the new PCCB's and new cast iron rotors on a 991 GT3, AFAIK. If some one has that I'd love to see it. Second, I believe Cup cars are restricted in brake type and wheel size so I'm not sure that's a good standard. There is a replacement cost issue with Cup cars which is a valid one when making the comparison. I hesitate to bring up the "I know someone" thing again, but the fact is that one of the guys on the 991 GT3 development team told me that if I got one option it should be PCCB's. Take that with a grain of salt if you like.
I agree, everyone has a right to make their own choice and I didn't mean to be critical of anyone. The OP asked for an opinion on whether to go with leather or PCCB's and I gave mine. I didn't mean to be critical any more than those who suggested that the OP bag the PCCB's. It's all good....
First we don't have an objective comparison between the new PCCB's and new cast iron rotors on a 991 GT3, AFAIK. If some one has that I'd love to see it. Second, I believe Cup cars are restricted in brake type and wheel size so I'm not sure that's a good standard. There is a replacement cost issue with Cup cars which is a valid one when making the comparison. I hesitate to bring up the "I know someone" thing again, but the fact is that one of the guys on the 991 GT3 development team told me that if I got one option it should be PCCB's. Take that with a grain of salt if you like.
I agree, everyone has a right to make their own choice and I didn't mean to be critical of anyone. The OP asked for an opinion on whether to go with leather or PCCB's and I gave mine. I didn't mean to be critical any more than those who suggested that the OP bag the PCCB's. It's all good....
10-05-2014, 09:35 PM
#28
Nordschleife Master
To each his own. There is so much controversy over PCCB vs cast iron that I don't think one can automatically declare PCCB a must have option for the GT3. There are as many arguments for them as there are against them. We know from objective research that stopping distance is not any better with PCCBs. So, from a performance perspective it boils down to unsprung weight. Can the average owner feel the "unsprung" weight difference in their daily drive? If its such a critical performance option why aren't they on Cup cars? Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning anyone's decision about their options. Everyone has the right to choose what they want for their cars. I just don't think its fair to challenge someone's decision to purchase a GT3 because they want to apply their $10K differently than you. Just my .02.
10-05-2014, 09:54 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
I cannot understand these comments such as "if you are going to track the car heavily, then ditch the PCCBs". That's extremely short sighted. If you indeed track the car often, you'll be going through rotors at such a clip, that it really won't matter (assuming you're driving the car at or near its full potential).
My last car had PCCBs, as I wanted them. The rotors came off the car as it became a track car, sat on the shelf while cast iron rotors became the norm, then the PCCBs went back on as it retired from track duty. The car is more desirable on the secondary market with PCCBs, so I see it as a no-brainer.
My last car had PCCBs, as I wanted them. The rotors came off the car as it became a track car, sat on the shelf while cast iron rotors became the norm, then the PCCBs went back on as it retired from track duty. The car is more desirable on the secondary market with PCCBs, so I see it as a no-brainer.
I set my budget and Having had a recent bad experience with another marque and carbon ceramic brakes its big reds for me.
Ryan
