991 GT3 by Getawayer
09-14-2014, 11:10 PM
#48
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After almost 11.000 km's in my 991 GT3, I haven't used the automatic mode for more than +/- 50 km's! (Just in a traffic jam or after startup with a very cold engine.)
*On the other hand I tried a few laps on the Nordschleife in automatic mode 'PDK-SPORT' and I promise you that is NOT boring
My opinion is that this car is indeed boring when driven in auto mode (without activating 'PDK-SPORT'. But when you drive it a lot you'll figure out soon enough that the car is big fun when you shift it yourself. Paddles or gear lever.
09-14-2014, 11:59 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Calling the GT3 boring with junk steering is really unfair. It is far from boring and especially if you are in manual mode. As for the steering, as some has pointed out the best steering to be experienced is that of a Lotus, and only people who have driven a lotus would know what I mean. I have owned a Lotus for number of years, and also owned many Porsches over the past 20 years, and I can only attest to the superiority of the Lotus steering over the Porsches. Believe me when I tell you this GT3 steering is not that bad, and although it is not equal to a lotus or to an older GT3 steering, it is still very accurate, and has a good road feel, and reasonable weight. When I drive my 991 C4S, which in my opinion has a little better feel to it than the 991 2S, the word "Junk" pops in my head, and I immediately start missing my Lotus steering feel, and wish Porsche never changed it to an electrical unit, but I rarely get this same feeling when I drive my 991 GT3, and almost never find myself thinking of my old Lotus steering. As matter of fact ever since I started driving my GT3 I can no longer stand the steering feel in my C4S, and find myself avoiding to drive that car. So again it is really unfair to call the car boring with junk steering. Mark
Last edited by mqandil; 09-15-2014 at 12:25 AM.
09-15-2014, 12:20 AM
#51
Race Director
I can agree that the term "boring" can be ONLY used for the PDK-s in automatic mode. This is just a mode to make slow traffic bearable IMO.
After almost 11.000 km's in my 991 GT3, I haven't used the automatic mode for more than +/- 50 km's! (Just in a traffic jam or after startup with a very cold engine.)
*On the other hand I tried a few laps on the Nordschleife in automatic mode 'PDK-SPORT' and I promise you that is NOT boring
My opinion is that this car is indeed boring when driven in auto mode (without activating 'PDK-SPORT'. But when you drive it a lot you'll figure out soon enough that the car is big fun when you shift it yourself. Paddles or gear lever.
After almost 11.000 km's in my 991 GT3, I haven't used the automatic mode for more than +/- 50 km's! (Just in a traffic jam or after startup with a very cold engine.)
*On the other hand I tried a few laps on the Nordschleife in automatic mode 'PDK-SPORT' and I promise you that is NOT boring
My opinion is that this car is indeed boring when driven in auto mode (without activating 'PDK-SPORT'. But when you drive it a lot you'll figure out soon enough that the car is big fun when you shift it yourself. Paddles or gear lever.
I agree completely; PDK-SPORT in the right environment is definitely not boring!
09-15-2014, 12:40 AM
#52
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All relative. I loved the 991 I had for a wknd. In relationship to the MT I just thought unengaging. On the track totally the opposite. For the PDK to work for me on the street I just thought boring in auto mode and OK in manual mode. This could all change tomorrow as DT LA motors may buy my 2010 and then I'll have to change my post!!! All good. I need both
Calling the GT3 boring with junk steering is really unfair. It is far from boring and especially if you are in manual mode. As for the steering, as some has pointed out the best steering to be experienced is that of a Lotus, and only people who have driven a lotus would know what I mean. I have owned a Lotus for number of years, and also owned many Porsches over the past 20 years, and I can only attest to the superiority of the Lotus steering over the Porsches. Believe me when I tell you this GT3 steering is not that bad, and although it is not equal to a lotus or to an older GT3 steering, it is still very accurate, and has a good road feel, and reasonable weight. When I drive my 991 C4S, which in my opinion has a little better feel to it than the 991 2S, the word "Junk" pops in my head, and I immediately start missing my Lotus steering feel, and wish Porsche never changed it to an electrical unit, but I rarely get this same feeling when I drive my 991 GT3, and almost never find myself thinking of my old Lotus steering. As matter of fact ever since I started driving my GT3 I can no longer stand the steering feel in my C4S, and find myself avoiding to drive that car. So again it is really unfair to call the car boring with junk steering. Mark
09-15-2014, 12:53 AM
#54
The only thing that makes my RMS weep a bit is the fact I run a Europipe 100 cat exhaust which provides less back pressure, hence the way the seal is oriented, makes for less than oil tight. A few drops on the garage floor after use. It's not like I am pca racing, strictly DE's. You are probably right, based on my usage, I would be better off with the 991 as far as using the car off track with the occasional track day. Now the question is, do I wait for a possible/promised RS allocation or bag it for a currently available GT3 allocation.hmmmm
PS: I still have 996 GT3 Cup rear toe arms and a rear mono ball kit uninstalled. I guess originally, my tracking desires were a bit optimistic.
PS: I still have 996 GT3 Cup rear toe arms and a rear mono ball kit uninstalled. I guess originally, my tracking desires were a bit optimistic.
As for the RS, I think you'll want that car either way, but I'd say having the 991 GT3 as a "trade in" will put you in good stead as a good customer. Passing on the GT3 right now would really suit the dealer because they can then release it to the shark tank and sell it to the highest bidder.
09-15-2014, 12:55 AM
#55
Race Director
Calling the GT3 boring with junk steering is really unfair. It is far from boring and especially if you are in manual mode. As for the steering, as some has pointed out the best steering to be experienced is that of a Lotus, and only people who have driven a lotus would know what I mean. I have owned a Lotus for number of years, and also owned many Porsches over the past 20 years, and I can only attest to the superiority of the Lotus steering over the Porsches. Believe me when I tell you this GT3 steering is not that bad, and although it is not equal to a lotus or to an older GT3 steering, it is still very accurate, and has a good road feel, and reasonable weight. When I drive my 991 C4S, which in my opinion has a little better feel to it than the 991 2S, the word "Junk" pops in my head, and I immediately start missing my Lotus steering feel, and wish Porsche never changed it to an electrical unit, but I rarely get this same feeling when I drive my 991 GT3, and almost never find myself thinking of my old Lotus steering. As matter of fact ever since I started driving my GT3 I can no longer stand the steering feel in my C4S, and find myself avoiding to drive that car. So again it is really unfair to call the car boring with junk steering. Mark
09-15-2014, 12:59 AM
#56
09-15-2014, 01:00 AM
#57
Race Director
With some mileage included (say 100-150 miles/day) this is actually a good offer for a Carrera gt
09-15-2014, 01:00 AM
#58
To clarify, the "boring" comment was directed at a Carrera, not a GT3 and the "junk" comment, well, just go back and watch the rather very directed comments by the Monkey while driving the 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 vs some yank tank Z/28 ... I think he went from "junk" and took it to "emasculated" ... I think that means having ones junk removed ...
09-15-2014, 02:23 AM
#59
Race Director
To clarify, the "boring" comment was directed at a Carrera, not a GT3 and the "junk" comment, well, just go back and watch the rather very directed comments by the Monkey while driving the 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 vs some yank tank Z/28 ... I think he went from "junk" and took it to "emasculated" ... I think that means having ones junk removed ...
If steering feel correlates to how much the wheel jumps in your hands over road imperfections, then agreed, my Lotus Europa and '84 Carrera provided more "feel", as did my other previous 911's. However, while the sensations through the wheel of the 991 GT3 are more subdued they're still there. I don't need huge amounts of kickback to tell me what the front wheels are doing. Admittedly, it's subjective, but neither "junk" nor "emasculated" come close to describing the 991 GT3 steering IMO; " more subtle but still communicative" is a better description.
09-15-2014, 03:00 AM
#60
Yeah, it took a few posts to realize which car the boring comment was referring to; I think I clarified earlier that there was a misunderstanding on that score. The Monkey seems to blow with the wind. His initial 991 GT3 test some months ago spoke to how the difference between the EM steering in the new car and the hydraulic steering in the old was not particularly significant.
If steering feel correlates to how much the wheel jumps in your hands over road imperfections, then agreed, my Lotus Europa and '84 Carrera provided more "feel", as did my other previous 911's. However, while the sensations through the wheel of the 991 GT3 are more subdued they're still there. I don't need huge amounts of kickback to tell me what the front wheels are doing. Admittedly, it's subjective, but neither "junk" nor "emasculated" come close to describing the 991 GT3 steering IMO; " more subtle but still communicative" is a better description.
If steering feel correlates to how much the wheel jumps in your hands over road imperfections, then agreed, my Lotus Europa and '84 Carrera provided more "feel", as did my other previous 911's. However, while the sensations through the wheel of the 991 GT3 are more subdued they're still there. I don't need huge amounts of kickback to tell me what the front wheels are doing. Admittedly, it's subjective, but neither "junk" nor "emasculated" come close to describing the 991 GT3 steering IMO; " more subtle but still communicative" is a better description.
What I would say is the steering continues being disappointing. I don't expect the tingling, lively feel of a '73 RS or the "run over a coin and tell you if it's heads or tails" feel of the 993. What I miss compared to the RS 3.8 is that satisfaction that you really know when you've done a good job. The same was true of the 996 GT3. Put in a good lap in the 996 and you really had no doubt and barely wanted to see the data other than for the joy of bragging about it ... : )
So I haven't gone anywhere near the 1000's of miles I've tracked in those cars, so who cares what I think, but my first day on track with the GT3 (and my next is next Sunday) I was in awe of what the car was doing with me as an interested passenger rather than what I could do with it as the driver in control of it. For next weekend, my focus is to be the driver and have the car do my bidding. I'll have better suspension and maybe the car will be reasonably well sorted out and ready to work for a living. Early days. I've got at least a year (grumble...) before the RS arrives ...
I imagine the electric steering is great for high speed stability and great for integration with all the other systems, great as an OEM line item in various supplier contracts and probably has all kinds of 3D maps the R&D folks can tweak just like engine tuners working their fuel/ignition maps. But rather like a well-tuned engine, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in the recipe or the quantitative analysis. If you drive a car and the feel of the engine is that wild, relentless scream all the way to the rev-limiter, you don't need to see the dyno chart.
The other thing I have for perspective is the opportunity to go directly from early cars to 90's to 2000's and into the 991 GT3 to make comparisons (however subjectively) and for now, I have to hand it to the 997 as the car to drive.
Still, tomorrow morning, I'll be reaching for the keys to the 991 GT3 and be honestly looking forward to quite a fun week ahead.