.GT3 Dynamics and Driving Lessons
08-10-2014, 12:01 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
.GT3 Dynamics and Driving Lessons
I am relative new to the track scene with about 2 years of SoCal HPDE experience (say 24 track days) in a BMW E92 M3 platform.
I have no problem running traction control off and putting the car sideways to rotate the M3 when needed. But from my understanding so far, the 911 rear motor platform has totally different dynamics.
I want a steeper learning curve with the 911(want to really avoid leaf blower to clean interior full of runoff dirt).
Does anyone have recommendations for 911 driving lessons here in SoCal?
Also, do you think previous the GT3 generation car dynamics/behavior will be somewhat similar to our 2014?
I have no problem running traction control off and putting the car sideways to rotate the M3 when needed. But from my understanding so far, the 911 rear motor platform has totally different dynamics.
I want a steeper learning curve with the 911(want to really avoid leaf blower to clean interior full of runoff dirt).
Does anyone have recommendations for 911 driving lessons here in SoCal?
Also, do you think previous the GT3 generation car dynamics/behavior will be somewhat similar to our 2014?
Last edited by CALSE; 08-11-2014 at 02:47 AM.
08-10-2014, 12:27 PM
#2
Drifting
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I don't think you'll have any big surprise. I too started in BMW M3s and was apprehensive prior to tracking my (then) brand new GT3.
Take your time to learn the car and how it behaves on track and you'll be fine. I think the biggest surprise for me was how early I could get on throttle and how easy it was to tidy up (when the rear end started to come around) with throttle.
I've driven every variant of the 997 GT cars and they are a blast. I sat right seat, coaching recently, in a 991 GT3 and was shocked at how composed and sorted this new car is. My butt was telling me it was as fast, if not faster, than my old 997.2 RS with slicks.
Take your time to learn the car and how it behaves on track and you'll be fine. I think the biggest surprise for me was how early I could get on throttle and how easy it was to tidy up (when the rear end started to come around) with throttle.
I've driven every variant of the 997 GT cars and they are a blast. I sat right seat, coaching recently, in a 991 GT3 and was shocked at how composed and sorted this new car is. My butt was telling me it was as fast, if not faster, than my old 997.2 RS with slicks.
08-10-2014, 12:41 PM
#3
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Probably the biggest difference is that when these cars get loose the cure is more throttle, not less, especially on corner exit. With my M3s I'd just countersteer and breath slightly off the gas. With the 911 platform throttle = grip.
08-10-2014, 01:02 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
This is what I am hearing from multiple sources. Throttle and then more throttle. Hahaha! I can't wait. 1,600 more break-in miles.
08-10-2014, 01:13 PM
#6
I would caution on being too happy with the throttle. There is a lot of talk bandied about not lifting and/or adding throttle.
The idea is to feed in the throttle and NOT LIFT when the tail comes out. But, if you are at 70% throttle and the tail comes out and you go to 100% you will just spin.
If you are exiting and at 100% throttle you should not lift. Sort of.
The objective is to restore traction to the rear tires.
Spend time, a whole season, with all the aids on. Let the car help you at low risk. Then start pushing the envelope
Enjoy
The idea is to feed in the throttle and NOT LIFT when the tail comes out. But, if you are at 70% throttle and the tail comes out and you go to 100% you will just spin.
If you are exiting and at 100% throttle you should not lift. Sort of.
The objective is to restore traction to the rear tires.
Spend time, a whole season, with all the aids on. Let the car help you at low risk. Then start pushing the envelope
Enjoy
08-10-2014, 01:20 PM
#7
Trending Topics
08-10-2014, 01:38 PM
#10
Hey,
I am making the exact same transition from M3 (5-6 track events per year) to a GT3. I go to Germany often for work and have done a number of rentals (usually 6-10 laps per car) on the ring including 997.2 GT3RS, that is what made me decide to get a GT3 (I drove it back to back with a rent E90 M3 that same day and it made the M3 feel big, heavy and slow) I have also rented a 911 Turbo 997.2 at the LA track of Exotics Racing and then rented the 991 GT3 at the Las Vegas track of Exotics Racing.
The biggest difference is that you have to be more disciplined and trusting to drive the rear engine cars and you need to make sure you have the technical parts of the drive/track in the front of your mind as you approach corners. The balance and behavior of the 997 vs 991 generations was distinct to me. The 991 GT3 was much easier to drive that the 997 family. It would not stop me from buying a 997 GT3, but after driving both cars, I can make the 991 GT3 a daily driver the 997 GT3 would be a total pain in real life traffic every day.
As you note in your signature, you live in OC. I lived in Temecula and commuted 80 each way, every day back and forth over the Ortega highway in a 350Z and then my M3 over 8 years and both were manual cars. Those clutches were designed for a daily drive car. The clutch in the 997 GT3 is not something I would want as a daily drive car. Since, I don’t do enough track days to have a dedicated track car, mine has to do double duty.
I am going to do the Porsche driving school in Alabama before my car gets GT3 gets here in December. If you can everyone I have spoken that has done the school says it is a great way to learn 911s.
Here is my input on the 997s:
1. On one turn, I hit the accelerator to early before the weight had shifted into the turn the rear end really when out on me. The M3 would forgive such mistakes.
2. I also found that I front end is so light that you can provide too much steering input into the corners and mess up your lines. After 4-5 laps I got the hang of steering less, unlike the M3 you don’t have to dive into corners to get the nose going the right way.
3. One common thing is the high-revving engines so you have to keep the right gears, but this will feel and sound great.
4. I found that I was braking to soon in the 911s, the lighter car and better Porsche brakes require you trust the car more and rethink when and how you brake and turn-in. The M3 has some much front end weight that is requires a different style.
5. Once I settled into the car and trusted the brakes, suspension and grip, it became much more predictable and made me a convert to the 911 GT3. After the first day on the ring the car felt great and showed me how much more I had to learn about driving.
Here is my input on 991 GT3: (I have posted this before)
I got to drive the 991 GT3t back-to-back with a 458.
1. Steering – The steering is so precise the only thing I can compare it to is the 458. It really is point and shoot. Compared to my M3, which I have tracked many times, the steering is so much more capable, I had to re-learn how to steer a car. I had about 20 laps in the car and it took me about 10 to really trust the GT3 and to drive it as hard as I dared. My first laps on the 1.2 mile course were about 1:03 and once I just let the car do what it was designed to, my times dropped to about 55 seconds. The car just feels so good and I sure with time I could shave another 4-5 seconds off that time as I get better at judging break points. You really can just become one with the machine.
2. Power – As you would expect, plenty of power in car and it is readily available. It feels like more power than the numbers would indicate on paper. The PDK gives you so much control over how you apply power, it feels like magic. If you like lots of absolute muscle you will be disappointed in the car. It would not keep up with the 458 on the 1800m long straight, but it really caught up with them in the corners. I also found the low-speed power around the paddock to be “just right.”
3. PDK – I have had the chance to drive the GTR, 997.2 Turbo, 458, Lambo Superleggera, R8 V10 and GT3, all of which have paddles, at Exotics Racing over the past few months and the GT3 PDK is as good as it gets. The 458 is just as fast, but not as smooth. I have always driven manuals, just because I could. I don’t have a big bias either way, and I can tell you I did not miss the manual at all today over my laps. The PDK gave me absolute control over the car and it really became intuitive for me very quickly. The added bonus is my wife can drive the new GT3, of course, I hope does not like it too much.
4. Brakes – This car had steel brakes which is how mine will come. I am sure the PCCBs are great, but I could not find any faults with the steel brakes. Obviously, with this car being a rental the ride along instructor made sure I braked early enough to not take any real risks. It was clear that the brakes could be pushed much harder. We did 10 laps, took a break for about 5 minutes and then 10 more, I could not feel any fade at all.
5. Overall Ride – It felt about the same as my M3 that has KW3 coil-overs and extra sway bars, stiff but livable for a daily drive. I left OC at 7:30 am, drove 250 miles to Vegas, stopped for lunch ,hit the track at 1 pm and did my laps over 45 minutes and felt fine when I got out of the GT3. It was just like my M3. I then drove home 250 miles and was home by 7:30 pm no worse for the use.
6. Seats – They felt good to me. I am 5’ 8” and 250, so it passed the “fat-***” factor. After about 20 laps I felt no issues and it was very comfortable. The leg bolsters left plenty of room and side bolsters hugged the ribs very well. I did not slide around at all.
7. Visibility – I did have to lift the seat up to get the right sight lines out of the car so I would guess for the taller guys it would be good.
I hope this helps. I know for some folks here this is not a big purchase, but for me it is twice as much as I have ever spent on a car. It has not been and easy choice, but after driving the 991 GT3, I know in my bones I would regret not have one of these cars.
I am making the exact same transition from M3 (5-6 track events per year) to a GT3. I go to Germany often for work and have done a number of rentals (usually 6-10 laps per car) on the ring including 997.2 GT3RS, that is what made me decide to get a GT3 (I drove it back to back with a rent E90 M3 that same day and it made the M3 feel big, heavy and slow) I have also rented a 911 Turbo 997.2 at the LA track of Exotics Racing and then rented the 991 GT3 at the Las Vegas track of Exotics Racing.
The biggest difference is that you have to be more disciplined and trusting to drive the rear engine cars and you need to make sure you have the technical parts of the drive/track in the front of your mind as you approach corners. The balance and behavior of the 997 vs 991 generations was distinct to me. The 991 GT3 was much easier to drive that the 997 family. It would not stop me from buying a 997 GT3, but after driving both cars, I can make the 991 GT3 a daily driver the 997 GT3 would be a total pain in real life traffic every day.
As you note in your signature, you live in OC. I lived in Temecula and commuted 80 each way, every day back and forth over the Ortega highway in a 350Z and then my M3 over 8 years and both were manual cars. Those clutches were designed for a daily drive car. The clutch in the 997 GT3 is not something I would want as a daily drive car. Since, I don’t do enough track days to have a dedicated track car, mine has to do double duty.
I am going to do the Porsche driving school in Alabama before my car gets GT3 gets here in December. If you can everyone I have spoken that has done the school says it is a great way to learn 911s.
Here is my input on the 997s:
1. On one turn, I hit the accelerator to early before the weight had shifted into the turn the rear end really when out on me. The M3 would forgive such mistakes.
2. I also found that I front end is so light that you can provide too much steering input into the corners and mess up your lines. After 4-5 laps I got the hang of steering less, unlike the M3 you don’t have to dive into corners to get the nose going the right way.
3. One common thing is the high-revving engines so you have to keep the right gears, but this will feel and sound great.
4. I found that I was braking to soon in the 911s, the lighter car and better Porsche brakes require you trust the car more and rethink when and how you brake and turn-in. The M3 has some much front end weight that is requires a different style.
5. Once I settled into the car and trusted the brakes, suspension and grip, it became much more predictable and made me a convert to the 911 GT3. After the first day on the ring the car felt great and showed me how much more I had to learn about driving.
Here is my input on 991 GT3: (I have posted this before)
I got to drive the 991 GT3t back-to-back with a 458.
1. Steering – The steering is so precise the only thing I can compare it to is the 458. It really is point and shoot. Compared to my M3, which I have tracked many times, the steering is so much more capable, I had to re-learn how to steer a car. I had about 20 laps in the car and it took me about 10 to really trust the GT3 and to drive it as hard as I dared. My first laps on the 1.2 mile course were about 1:03 and once I just let the car do what it was designed to, my times dropped to about 55 seconds. The car just feels so good and I sure with time I could shave another 4-5 seconds off that time as I get better at judging break points. You really can just become one with the machine.
2. Power – As you would expect, plenty of power in car and it is readily available. It feels like more power than the numbers would indicate on paper. The PDK gives you so much control over how you apply power, it feels like magic. If you like lots of absolute muscle you will be disappointed in the car. It would not keep up with the 458 on the 1800m long straight, but it really caught up with them in the corners. I also found the low-speed power around the paddock to be “just right.”
3. PDK – I have had the chance to drive the GTR, 997.2 Turbo, 458, Lambo Superleggera, R8 V10 and GT3, all of which have paddles, at Exotics Racing over the past few months and the GT3 PDK is as good as it gets. The 458 is just as fast, but not as smooth. I have always driven manuals, just because I could. I don’t have a big bias either way, and I can tell you I did not miss the manual at all today over my laps. The PDK gave me absolute control over the car and it really became intuitive for me very quickly. The added bonus is my wife can drive the new GT3, of course, I hope does not like it too much.
4. Brakes – This car had steel brakes which is how mine will come. I am sure the PCCBs are great, but I could not find any faults with the steel brakes. Obviously, with this car being a rental the ride along instructor made sure I braked early enough to not take any real risks. It was clear that the brakes could be pushed much harder. We did 10 laps, took a break for about 5 minutes and then 10 more, I could not feel any fade at all.
5. Overall Ride – It felt about the same as my M3 that has KW3 coil-overs and extra sway bars, stiff but livable for a daily drive. I left OC at 7:30 am, drove 250 miles to Vegas, stopped for lunch ,hit the track at 1 pm and did my laps over 45 minutes and felt fine when I got out of the GT3. It was just like my M3. I then drove home 250 miles and was home by 7:30 pm no worse for the use.
6. Seats – They felt good to me. I am 5’ 8” and 250, so it passed the “fat-***” factor. After about 20 laps I felt no issues and it was very comfortable. The leg bolsters left plenty of room and side bolsters hugged the ribs very well. I did not slide around at all.
7. Visibility – I did have to lift the seat up to get the right sight lines out of the car so I would guess for the taller guys it would be good.
I hope this helps. I know for some folks here this is not a big purchase, but for me it is twice as much as I have ever spent on a car. It has not been and easy choice, but after driving the 991 GT3, I know in my bones I would regret not have one of these cars.
08-10-2014, 01:45 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Do some autocrossing to familiarize yourself with the dynamics and weight shift of rear engine rwd car. Had a chance driving a e36 m3 at thill last weekend- one of the most easy balanced and tossable car on track- felt very safe in it. My old 6 the thought of spinning is always on my mind but man what a rewarding drive if you do everything right. Mike
08-10-2014, 06:17 PM
#13
GT3 player par excellence
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08-10-2014, 07:25 PM
#14
Racer
Thread Starter
Hahaha! Serious crowd here. I didn't expect hostility specially from this forum. I added the symbols to quickly find my posts (too lazy to search). Perhaps I'll change to something else to avoid confusion. Perhaps ":-)" since I have this stupid grin whenever I get in the GT3.
I know you really can't learn much from just talking about it but I actually have learned some pointers from some discussions since I can somewhat understand the language from my limited track experience.
I am trying to learn as much as possible during my break-in period so the fall/winter track season is maximized.
:-)
08-11-2014, 01:08 AM
#15
GT3 player par excellence
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it will get under your skin. you will grow to love it.