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.GT3 Dynamics and Driving Lessons

 
Old 08-11-2014, 01:21 AM
  #16  
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+1 to finding a skidpad or autox course. With each new car I've taken to the track, I've tried to find a safe place to feel the behavior of the car when bent out of shape. In my GT3, I tried several behaviors to see how the car what it would do. To be clear, this was either on open track or off track with nothing around to hit.

1. Enter a turn at speed and lift mid corner;
2. kick the rear out mid corner and induce a rear drift. Try variations on adding throttle
3. Trailbrake deep into a corner

I had heard so many horror stories about how unforgiving these cars were. I think a lot of it is due to poor setup. If you have decent car control skills, it's pretty easy to catch. I think the reputation is overblown.

PS: If you track and push your car at all, don't kid yourself that you won't be using a vacuum or leaf blower on your interior at some point
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:05 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by 996FLT6 View Post
Do some autocrossing to familiarize yourself with the dynamics and weight shift of rear engine rwd car. Had a chance driving a e36 m3 at thill last weekend- one of the most easy balanced and tossable car on track- felt very safe in it. My old 6 the thought of spinning is always on my mind but man what a rewarding drive if you do everything right. Mike
Mike..I can't stay focused with your posts. My eyes keep panning left and down.:-)

Yes. I have a similar experience with my E92 M3. Very comfortable tossing around at will, and response very predictable.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:06 AM
  #18  
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CALSE, I can't stay focused because you can't title your topics like everyone else here.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:23 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by ChrisF View Post
+1 to finding a skidpad or autox course. With each new car I've taken to the track, I've tried to find a safe place to feel the behavior of the car when bent out of shape. In my GT3, I tried several behaviors to see how the car what it would do. To be clear, this was either on open track or off track with nothing around to hit. 1. Enter a turn at speed and lift mid corner; 2. kick the rear out mid corner and induce a rear drift. Try variations on adding throttle 3. Trailbrake deep into a corner I had heard so many horror stories about how unforgiving these cars were. I think a lot of it is due to poor setup. If you have decent car control skills, it's pretty easy to catch. I think the reputation is overblown. PS: If you track and push your car at all, don't kid yourself that you won't be using a vacuum or leaf blower on your interior at some point
PS: Agree. I'll enjoy the nice new clean car (interior and exterior) during break-in period.:-)
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:06 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by cingulus View Post
Hey, I am making the exact same transition from M3 (5-6 track events per year) to a GT3. I go to Germany often for work and have done a number of rentals (usually 6-10 laps per car) on the ring including 997.2 GT3RS, that is what made me decide to get a GT3 (I drove it back to back with a rent E90 M3 that same day and it made the M3 feel big, heavy and slow) I have also rented a 911 Turbo 997.2 at the LA track of Exotics Racing and then rented the 991 GT3 at the Las Vegas track of Exotics Racing. The biggest difference is that you have to be more disciplined and trusting to drive the rear engine cars and you need to make sure you have the technical parts of the drive/track in the front of your mind as you approach corners. The balance and behavior of the 997 vs 991 generations was distinct to me. The 991 GT3 was much easier to drive that the 997 family. It would not stop me from buying a 997 GT3, but after driving both cars, I can make the 991 GT3 a daily driver the 997 GT3 would be a total pain in real life traffic every day. As you note in your signature, you live in OC. I lived in Temecula and commuted 80 each way, every day back and forth over the Ortega highway in a 350Z and then my M3 over 8 years and both were manual cars. Those clutches were designed for a daily drive car. The clutch in the 997 GT3 is not something I would want as a daily drive car. Since, I don’t do enough track days to have a dedicated track car, mine has to do double duty. I am going to do the Porsche driving school in Alabama before my car gets GT3 gets here in December. If you can everyone I have spoken that has done the school says it is a great way to learn 911s. Here is my input on the 997s: 1. On one turn, I hit the accelerator to early before the weight had shifted into the turn the rear end really when out on me. The M3 would forgive such mistakes. 2. I also found that I front end is so light that you can provide too much steering input into the corners and mess up your lines. After 4-5 laps I got the hang of steering less, unlike the M3 you don’t have to dive into corners to get the nose going the right way. 3. One common thing is the high-revving engines so you have to keep the right gears, but this will feel and sound great. 4. I found that I was braking to soon in the 911s, the lighter car and better Porsche brakes require you trust the car more and rethink when and how you brake and turn-in. The M3 has some much front end weight that is requires a different style. 5. Once I settled into the car and trusted the brakes, suspension and grip, it became much more predictable and made me a convert to the 911 GT3. After the first day on the ring the car felt great and showed me how much more I had to learn about driving. Here is my input on 991 GT3: (I have posted this before) I got to drive the 991 GT3t back-to-back with a 458. 1. Steering – The steering is so precise the only thing I can compare it to is the 458. It really is point and shoot. Compared to my M3, which I have tracked many times, the steering is so much more capable, I had to re-learn how to steer a car. I had about 20 laps in the car and it took me about 10 to really trust the GT3 and to drive it as hard as I dared. My first laps on the 1.2 mile course were about 1:03 and once I just let the car do what it was designed to, my times dropped to about 55 seconds. The car just feels so good and I sure with time I could shave another 4-5 seconds off that time as I get better at judging break points. You really can just become one with the machine. 2. Power – As you would expect, plenty of power in car and it is readily available. It feels like more power than the numbers would indicate on paper. The PDK gives you so much control over how you apply power, it feels like magic. If you like lots of absolute muscle you will be disappointed in the car. It would not keep up with the 458 on the 1800m long straight, but it really caught up with them in the corners. I also found the low-speed power around the paddock to be “just right.” 3. PDK – I have had the chance to drive the GTR, 997.2 Turbo, 458, Lambo Superleggera, R8 V10 and GT3, all of which have paddles, at Exotics Racing over the past few months and the GT3 PDK is as good as it gets. The 458 is just as fast, but not as smooth. I have always driven manuals, just because I could. I don’t have a big bias either way, and I can tell you I did not miss the manual at all today over my laps. The PDK gave me absolute control over the car and it really became intuitive for me very quickly. The added bonus is my wife can drive the new GT3, of course, I hope does not like it too much. 4. Brakes – This car had steel brakes which is how mine will come. I am sure the PCCBs are great, but I could not find any faults with the steel brakes. Obviously, with this car being a rental the ride along instructor made sure I braked early enough to not take any real risks. It was clear that the brakes could be pushed much harder. We did 10 laps, took a break for about 5 minutes and then 10 more, I could not feel any fade at all. 5. Overall Ride – It felt about the same as my M3 that has KW3 coil-overs and extra sway bars, stiff but livable for a daily drive. I left OC at 7:30 am, drove 250 miles to Vegas, stopped for lunch ,hit the track at 1 pm and did my laps over 45 minutes and felt fine when I got out of the GT3. It was just like my M3. I then drove home 250 miles and was home by 7:30 pm no worse for the use. 6. Seats – They felt good to me. I am 5’ 8” and 250, so it passed the “fat-***” factor. After about 20 laps I felt no issues and it was very comfortable. The leg bolsters left plenty of room and side bolsters hugged the ribs very well. I did not slide around at all. 7. Visibility – I did have to lift the seat up to get the right sight lines out of the car so I would guess for the taller guys it would be good. I hope this helps. I know for some folks here this is not a big purchase, but for me it is twice as much as I have ever spent on a car. It has not been and easy choice, but after driving the 991 GT3, I know in my bones I would regret not have one of these cars.
Noted. I intend to begin my GT3 track training at a conservative pace, and stick to the fundamentals.

I believe the GT3 race line will be relatively similar to the other high HP RWD car race lines. The difficult part in my mind is finding the optimum speed at turn entry, mid and exit.

Hope to meet you at a local track one of these days. Auto Club Speedway so close to Temecula!
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:47 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by MayorAdamWest View Post
Yes, which makes it even more of a jerk thing to do. Seems like a troll.
what are you guys talking about?
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:36 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by mainly View Post
what are you guys talking about?
It wasn't a big deal. Calse was experimenting with unique characters at the beginning of each of his thread titles as way of making them easy to identify has his. He tried "/ / /" and then ": )" and currently it's just ". "

As someone else pointed out, the easiest way to find your own posts is to hover the cursor over you user name in the top right corner and click "My Posts".

.
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:45 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by CALSE View Post
I am relative new to the track scene with about 2 years of SoCal HPDE experience (say 24 track days) in a BMW E92 M3 platform.

I have no problem running traction control off and putting the car sideways to rotate the M3 when needed. But from my understanding so far, the 911 rear motor platform has totally different dynamics.

I want a steeper learning curve with the 911(want to really avoid leaf blower to clean interior full of runoff dirt).

Does anyone have recommendations for 911 driving lessons here in SoCal?

Also, do you think previous the GT3 generation car dynamics/behavior will be somewhat similar to our 2014?
Are you running NASA So Cal? If so, I'd be happy to instruct you in October (or earlier at Speed Ventures). I need to get out once or twice during this long lull between races any way.
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:02 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by GT3_racer View Post
Are you running NASA So Cal? If so, I'd be happy to instruct you in October (or earlier at Speed Ventures). I need to get out once or twice during this long lull between races any way.
That would be awesome! I'll see how I can get into NASA. My training thus far has primarily been from rookie friends and watching YouTube videos. Hahahaha. I'll PM you when I am able to confirm. Thank you.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:08 PM
  #25  
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No problem. Speed Ventures works too. There's nothing with NASA until October.
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CALSE View Post
I am relative new to the track scene with about 2 years of SoCal HPDE experience (say 24 track days) in a BMW E92 M3 platform.

I have no problem running traction control off and putting the car sideways to rotate the M3 when needed. But from my understanding so far, the 911 rear motor platform has totally different dynamics.

I want a steeper learning curve with the 911(want to really avoid leaf blower to clean interior full of runoff dirt).

Does anyone have recommendations for 911 driving lessons here in SoCal?

Also, do you think previous the GT3 generation car dynamics/behavior will be somewhat similar to our 2014?
Did you buy your car from circle? I thought I saw a white GT3 with same graphics at circle.

For me, the best way to learn about the cars character is to take it to an autocross. I usually take it to an autocross before I hit the tracks to learn how the car behaves.

Where are you located in OC? Perhaps, we can hit the track together. Are you a member of POC or PCA?
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:38 PM
  #27  
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Circle Porsche yes. It has a GT3 Cup Car factory wrap a 918 owner allocation ordered with it and some dealer added advertising lettering for their last Long Beach Grand Prix showcase.

Not currently part of any organizations since new to Pcar. Which clubs would you suggest I join? I'm definitely down for a track event meeting once I complete my break-in period.
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:50 PM
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You should join POC for sure if you like tracking. PCA has few track days, but a lot of non-track events. I'll PM you my email address. Next track event is Laguna Seca on 23rd and Button Willow 13C on 24th.

My friend almost bought your car, but he didn't want to pay extra $4K for the graphics and the wrap. Congrats! Hope to see you at some track events.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:45 PM
  #29  
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CALSE - join both organizations. PCA has a 2 day Performance Driving School this weekend (I'm missing as I'll be in SF for a wedding), but I'd be more than happy to be your autocross instructor if you want to come down to Qualcomm at some point.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:52 PM
  #30  
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Join both PCA and POC. They typically have good events at Buttonwillow, Chuckwalla and Willow Springs. Speedventures is not bad but is getting a lot more crowded and the mix of cars gets a little suspect. Also, testing days allows you to get a ton of track time, and get a good shop that can provide you good track support and coaching.
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