991 GT3 vs. Ferrari 458
08-07-2014, 05:29 PM
#1
991 GT3 vs. Ferrari 458
My initial impressions having owned both for a short amount of time:
991 GT3:
Mine is a 2014 with a new engine. When I purchased the car, the original owner had driven it for about 800 miles, although the engine was brand new. Apparently he spec'd this car out, ordered it, then got tired of waiting for the new engine--so traded it in. The car stickered at $156,115 and came with PCCB's, front lift, and extra alcantara. There are a few things I would have done differently if I had spec'd it, such as yellow interior stitching to match the PCCB's (vs. red), and I would have opted for the 14 way power seats (or is it 18??) vs. the 4 way power seats that it has now. As far as I know, the carbon 918 bucket seats are not even an option for current USA GT3's. I'm also on the fence with the clear tail lights. Some people love them, others hate them...I don't have a strong opinion either way.
I can't speak for other GT3's, but mine comes with a button that opens up the baffles of the exhaust. Combine that with the "sport" button, and this is the best sounding stock 911 I've personally ever heard. Running toward the 9k rpm redline is a new experience for me in a 911, as most of my previous 911's were turbocharged, and those that weren't turbocharged didn't rev like this thing does. The need to switch gears happens quickly, as this engine loves to rev. Under 4k rpms, there is not a lot of low-end torque...it's a challenge jumping from my F10 M5 into this car, as the power delivery is the complete opposite of one another.
One thing Porsche needs to improve is the size of the paddle shifters. Ferrari has these amazing carbon fiber monster paddles that you can grab even if you have the steering wheel locked in a violent tail-slide. The aluminum paddle shifters in the GT3 need to be about 30% larger, as I found myself searching for them on more than one occasion. Once you figure out where the paddle shifters are, however, the PDK transmission is easily the best transmission of any car, anywhere. The shifts are steady, lightning fast, and best of all--they don't feel like you are about to break the car (more on the 458's dual clutch later). I recall the video that Motortrend put together...then one that showed them launching the 991 Turbo S fifty straight times. That's what Porsche's PDK gives you--the utmost confidence to hammer this car and not worry about anything breaking on you. I've never felt that way in a high performance car before and I'm not sure any current production car can match the toughness.
Here is the best part of the new GT3: toss this thing into a corner and there isn't a better handling car for less than $750,000 on the market today (I know that's a bold statement, but I believe it's true). I'm not sure what this thing weighs, but it feels lighter and more tossable than any 911 I've driven. From what I understand, they've lengthened the wheelbase an inch or so on this car vs. the 997 variants, which gives it a much more "planted" feel than its predecessors. The turn-in is amazing, and the sheer grip while exiting a turn is insanely confidence inspiring. So what if the ultra-sticky tires only last 3k miles--it's the best 3k miles you'll ever put on a car! Handling is what GT3's are made to do--and it's where this car will beat it's rivals on a racetrack.
The 991 GT3 in summary: slightly less powerful and noisy than the 458, but an insanely capable track car. And one which you won’t worry about flogging day in and day out.
Ferrari 458 Italia:
I was not seeking a 458. They are recognized as a terrific mid-engined V8 screamer, and rightfully so, but I was perfectly content with my 991 Turbo S. It just so happened that the guy selling a 2010 Murcielago SV to my business partner also happened to have a minty 458 Italia that he wanted to trade in on a new Aventador. We agreed on a price that was beneficial to both of us, but the selling price pissed off the dealer so much that I agreed to float $5k to them for processing the transaction. I still bought this car for $40k less than market value (IMHO) which hopefully means when I go to sell this car, it will have cost me nothing more than the interest I’ve paid to own it.
The thing that drew me to this particular car (besides the selling price) was the original sticker price of $326k dollars and that it had only been driven 1,600 miles in three years. I’ve only seen one other 458 Italia that has stickered this high. The original owner paid roughly $70 dollars per mile to drive this car based on his selling price to me. The list of carbon fiber options is insane, including front splitters, door sills, side skirts, engine surrounds, airbox, instrument cluster, middle tunnel area (escapes me what this is called right now), and door panels. It also has alcantara inserts in the seats. There is a spot on the sticker titled “other options” that was almost $45,000 dollars!
As we were on our way to take pictures last night, I was driving the 458 about a quarter mile ahead of my friend in the GT3. He said he could hear every up and down shift I was making EVEN OVER THE SOUND OF THE GT3’s EXHAUST as he paddled through the gears. Which sort of tells me something about the 458—it’s made to have a presence. Where the GT3 could be mistaken as just another 911, nobody is mistaking the 458 as anything other than a newer model Ferrari. And being located in Utah, I haven’t been stopped at a stoplight without someone taking a picture or giving me a thumbs up.
We swapped cars halfway through our drive last night and my buddy says to me “I love this car, but it feels like it’s on edge compared to the GT3”. I thought that was a perfect way to summarize what the 458 is: a mostly-exotic, 570 hp, mid-engined knife edge. This car does everything really freaking well, but it feels significantly more likely to break than the GT3 does. Take the dual clutch gear box for example: it shifts every bit as fast as the Porsche PDK, but it sounds and feels like every shift is shaving off .001% of the clutch. Based on the feel alone, I might only be comfortably launching this car a couple of times before the concern of clutch life would settle into the back of my brain. One other thing that bothers me: don’t bother trying to change lanes, turn on your wipers, or attempt to bright someone by using stalks mounted to the steering column—because everything is mounted to the steering wheel in an array of small buttons that if you haven’t committed to memory, your ability to access that function will be nonexistent.
Here is my favorite part of the 458: the engine. It’s said that the next 458 will be turbocharged. That’s totally fine with me—as I love turbocharged cars. But there’s something to be said for a super high-revving Italian V8 screaming 8 inches behind your head while the dude in the GT3 is trying to listen for his own exhaust note a quarter mile down the road. Compared to the GT3, the 458 feels like it has power from almost any RPM, whereas with the GT3 needs to access the higher RPM’s for the greatest thrust.
The 458 screams. It handles very well. And it gets looks. It’s a car that will cause double takes almost everywhere you go. And it’s a blast to drive.
Ultimately, it comes down to what you want out of a car: a track car that can also be driven to work, or an Italian that is stunning to look at and drive up the canyons on the weekends. For me, if I could only have one, the GT3 would be it.
Some pics from last night:
991 GT3:
Mine is a 2014 with a new engine. When I purchased the car, the original owner had driven it for about 800 miles, although the engine was brand new. Apparently he spec'd this car out, ordered it, then got tired of waiting for the new engine--so traded it in. The car stickered at $156,115 and came with PCCB's, front lift, and extra alcantara. There are a few things I would have done differently if I had spec'd it, such as yellow interior stitching to match the PCCB's (vs. red), and I would have opted for the 14 way power seats (or is it 18??) vs. the 4 way power seats that it has now. As far as I know, the carbon 918 bucket seats are not even an option for current USA GT3's. I'm also on the fence with the clear tail lights. Some people love them, others hate them...I don't have a strong opinion either way.
I can't speak for other GT3's, but mine comes with a button that opens up the baffles of the exhaust. Combine that with the "sport" button, and this is the best sounding stock 911 I've personally ever heard. Running toward the 9k rpm redline is a new experience for me in a 911, as most of my previous 911's were turbocharged, and those that weren't turbocharged didn't rev like this thing does. The need to switch gears happens quickly, as this engine loves to rev. Under 4k rpms, there is not a lot of low-end torque...it's a challenge jumping from my F10 M5 into this car, as the power delivery is the complete opposite of one another.
One thing Porsche needs to improve is the size of the paddle shifters. Ferrari has these amazing carbon fiber monster paddles that you can grab even if you have the steering wheel locked in a violent tail-slide. The aluminum paddle shifters in the GT3 need to be about 30% larger, as I found myself searching for them on more than one occasion. Once you figure out where the paddle shifters are, however, the PDK transmission is easily the best transmission of any car, anywhere. The shifts are steady, lightning fast, and best of all--they don't feel like you are about to break the car (more on the 458's dual clutch later). I recall the video that Motortrend put together...then one that showed them launching the 991 Turbo S fifty straight times. That's what Porsche's PDK gives you--the utmost confidence to hammer this car and not worry about anything breaking on you. I've never felt that way in a high performance car before and I'm not sure any current production car can match the toughness.
Here is the best part of the new GT3: toss this thing into a corner and there isn't a better handling car for less than $750,000 on the market today (I know that's a bold statement, but I believe it's true). I'm not sure what this thing weighs, but it feels lighter and more tossable than any 911 I've driven. From what I understand, they've lengthened the wheelbase an inch or so on this car vs. the 997 variants, which gives it a much more "planted" feel than its predecessors. The turn-in is amazing, and the sheer grip while exiting a turn is insanely confidence inspiring. So what if the ultra-sticky tires only last 3k miles--it's the best 3k miles you'll ever put on a car! Handling is what GT3's are made to do--and it's where this car will beat it's rivals on a racetrack.
The 991 GT3 in summary: slightly less powerful and noisy than the 458, but an insanely capable track car. And one which you won’t worry about flogging day in and day out.
Ferrari 458 Italia:
I was not seeking a 458. They are recognized as a terrific mid-engined V8 screamer, and rightfully so, but I was perfectly content with my 991 Turbo S. It just so happened that the guy selling a 2010 Murcielago SV to my business partner also happened to have a minty 458 Italia that he wanted to trade in on a new Aventador. We agreed on a price that was beneficial to both of us, but the selling price pissed off the dealer so much that I agreed to float $5k to them for processing the transaction. I still bought this car for $40k less than market value (IMHO) which hopefully means when I go to sell this car, it will have cost me nothing more than the interest I’ve paid to own it.
The thing that drew me to this particular car (besides the selling price) was the original sticker price of $326k dollars and that it had only been driven 1,600 miles in three years. I’ve only seen one other 458 Italia that has stickered this high. The original owner paid roughly $70 dollars per mile to drive this car based on his selling price to me. The list of carbon fiber options is insane, including front splitters, door sills, side skirts, engine surrounds, airbox, instrument cluster, middle tunnel area (escapes me what this is called right now), and door panels. It also has alcantara inserts in the seats. There is a spot on the sticker titled “other options” that was almost $45,000 dollars!
As we were on our way to take pictures last night, I was driving the 458 about a quarter mile ahead of my friend in the GT3. He said he could hear every up and down shift I was making EVEN OVER THE SOUND OF THE GT3’s EXHAUST as he paddled through the gears. Which sort of tells me something about the 458—it’s made to have a presence. Where the GT3 could be mistaken as just another 911, nobody is mistaking the 458 as anything other than a newer model Ferrari. And being located in Utah, I haven’t been stopped at a stoplight without someone taking a picture or giving me a thumbs up.
We swapped cars halfway through our drive last night and my buddy says to me “I love this car, but it feels like it’s on edge compared to the GT3”. I thought that was a perfect way to summarize what the 458 is: a mostly-exotic, 570 hp, mid-engined knife edge. This car does everything really freaking well, but it feels significantly more likely to break than the GT3 does. Take the dual clutch gear box for example: it shifts every bit as fast as the Porsche PDK, but it sounds and feels like every shift is shaving off .001% of the clutch. Based on the feel alone, I might only be comfortably launching this car a couple of times before the concern of clutch life would settle into the back of my brain. One other thing that bothers me: don’t bother trying to change lanes, turn on your wipers, or attempt to bright someone by using stalks mounted to the steering column—because everything is mounted to the steering wheel in an array of small buttons that if you haven’t committed to memory, your ability to access that function will be nonexistent.
Here is my favorite part of the 458: the engine. It’s said that the next 458 will be turbocharged. That’s totally fine with me—as I love turbocharged cars. But there’s something to be said for a super high-revving Italian V8 screaming 8 inches behind your head while the dude in the GT3 is trying to listen for his own exhaust note a quarter mile down the road. Compared to the GT3, the 458 feels like it has power from almost any RPM, whereas with the GT3 needs to access the higher RPM’s for the greatest thrust.
The 458 screams. It handles very well. And it gets looks. It’s a car that will cause double takes almost everywhere you go. And it’s a blast to drive.
Ultimately, it comes down to what you want out of a car: a track car that can also be driven to work, or an Italian that is stunning to look at and drive up the canyons on the weekends. For me, if I could only have one, the GT3 would be it.
Some pics from last night:
08-07-2014, 05:38 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Good report.
One of the reasons for the smaller paddles on the GT3 and other Porsche's are the paddles turns with the wheel. In the Ferrari, the paddles do not turn with the wheel. Having bigger paddles turning with the wheel could be cumbersome.
My preference would be the Ferrari setup.
One of the reasons for the smaller paddles on the GT3 and other Porsche's are the paddles turns with the wheel. In the Ferrari, the paddles do not turn with the wheel. Having bigger paddles turning with the wheel could be cumbersome.
My preference would be the Ferrari setup.
08-07-2014, 05:43 PM
#4
Race Director
Let me ask you this; you feel that the 458 is more powerful but yet the 0-60 mph tests shows they are on par. Is it just the power delivery that makes the 458 seem that much more powerful??
Would you classify the GT3 as a fast car?- The reason; is that I get it that the GT3 needs to be kept up in the higher rev ranges to ring out the power but their numbers suggest that it is a pretty fast car but I do not necessarily get that feeling from people who have driven the GT3.
Great write-up though
Would you classify the GT3 as a fast car?- The reason; is that I get it that the GT3 needs to be kept up in the higher rev ranges to ring out the power but their numbers suggest that it is a pretty fast car but I do not necessarily get that feeling from people who have driven the GT3.
Great write-up though
08-07-2014, 05:45 PM
#5
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WOW! What a first post, and a conclusion that I was not expecting. Your GT3 looks AMAZING. I think the 458 would benefit hugely from a small drop and wheel spacers. That's the best looking GT3 I have seen.. well done!
Evan
Evan
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John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
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08-07-2014, 06:05 PM
#8
Let me ask you this; you feel that the 458 is more powerful but yet the 0-60 mph tests shows they are on par. Is it just the power delivery that makes the 458 seem that much more powerful??
Would you classify the GT3 as a fast car?- The reason; is that I get it that the GT3 needs to be kept up in the higher rev ranges to ring out the power but their numbers suggest that it is a pretty fast car but I do not necessarily get that feeling from people who have driven the GT3.
Great write-up though
Would you classify the GT3 as a fast car?- The reason; is that I get it that the GT3 needs to be kept up in the higher rev ranges to ring out the power but their numbers suggest that it is a pretty fast car but I do not necessarily get that feeling from people who have driven the GT3.
Great write-up though
The GT3 is indeed a fast car, but the 458 is faster. It also is rated at 570 hp vs. 475 hp in the GT3.
On any sort of track, however, I'm confident the GT3 will win.
08-07-2014, 06:06 PM
#9
I agree on the 458. I've been looking at aftermarket wheels, too.
08-07-2014, 06:08 PM
#10
08-07-2014, 06:10 PM
#11
Track Day
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08-07-2014, 06:15 PM
#12
Race Director
Careful- you just tipped off the Police because all the GT3 Owner are running to their cars. This is very interesting information.
How do you perform the launch control and is it done in Manual or Automatic mode?
How do you perform the launch control and is it done in Manual or Automatic mode?
08-07-2014, 06:25 PM
#13
Nordschleife Master
Sorry,I have a hard time believing the throttle response in the GT3 will be permanently influenced by the launch control you did...say 2 weeks ago. I agree it might respond quicker right after you've launched it,but in modern cars the computer adapts to your driving style and if you go back driving like a grandma,that will reduce throttle response.
08-07-2014, 06:36 PM
#14
Race Director
To the OP, great first post.
Also, don't feel badly about not having yellow stitching to match your pccb, as it's simply not available.. Not even if you're Seinfeld... Ok, maybe if you're him but for most of us it's either red or standard platinum/white.
Now, about the launch control remap... I think you might be incorrect on that.
Also, don't feel badly about not having yellow stitching to match your pccb, as it's simply not available.. Not even if you're Seinfeld... Ok, maybe if you're him but for most of us it's either red or standard platinum/white.
Now, about the launch control remap... I think you might be incorrect on that.
08-07-2014, 06:50 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
I love your pictures of the GT3. Any chance I could get the higher resolution ones. I ordered mine in black also. You definitely have the best pictures of the GT3 in black.