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Just one quick Question. Possible to get 500 BHP out of ECU Tune?

 
Old 07-18-2014, 06:20 PM
  #46  
Larry Cable
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I will inform you that it is virtually impossible to flash tune the new Continental Siemens ECUs that are being installed on all the newest Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren, Maserati, Mercedes, BMW, and Bentley cars.

These new Continental ECUs are encrypted and have multiple layers of protection and are often rewritten by the OEM manufacturers and checked or re-validated by the OEM manufacturers. With wifi and satellite communication the OEMs can check the system at will. No company anywhere has been able to properly crack and tune these new ECUs and from what I have been told you dont even want to tamper with them as you can not get full control and when they KNOW you have been inside the ECU's software the OEM's can rewrite and VOID your warranty. From what has been described to me its like Big Brother taking complete autonomous control.

Also, the newest Ferrari V8 Specialie and Porsche 991 GT3 cars have 14.5:1 CR and 12.9 CR respectively. On pump fuel I cant imagine any tuner can advance the timing significantly and even with 100 octane unleaded may make a difference but at $10/gallon I may be getting old but see the law of diminishing returns on these super HICR engines.

One thing you can be sure of is that the new 991 GT3 engine employs virtually the same heavy exhaust system as all the previous 997 GT3 cars. I have analyzed the systems in person and in Germany and IMHO I would swap out the GT3 headers.

If anyone is looking for maximum street legal power I would get a set of equal length GT3 headers with HJS German tri-metallic sports racing catalytic converters as in the past +16HP was gained along with sports car sound. Dyno graph of a 997.2 GT3RS is on my website. I would then consider eliminating the very heavy twin side mufflers on the engine. This eliminates alot of weight off the rear of the car and this the best place to remove weight on any 911 for performance and handling dynamics. On the rear of the car my Fabspeed mini maxflo mufflers added +7HP on the previous generation 997 GT3 cars.

Fabspeed Motorsport uses HJS German tri-metaliic ultra short highflow catalytic converters for these headers. I actually switched over to McLaren Mp4-12C cats for these ultra highflow headers. I have supplied many of these HJS catalytic converters along with super tight radius U & J bends to Todd Zuccone at Evolution Motorsports for his big GT3 engine packages.

If the car did not have to be emissions legal I would try a set of headers with NO catalytic converters and keep the pipe OD outlet small for maximum exhaust gas speed. On the previous generation GT3 cars NO cats added a few more HP but made the car extremely loud and you had a CEL.

Its a shame as I had a Guards RED 991 GT3 ordered several years ago and my build was kicked back over & over, read everything on this forum, and I bailed. I had several local 991 GT3 customers and their cars all waiting for engines.

A chassis DYNO is perfectly suited to test any of these cars engines and actually gives you true data delivered to the rear wheels. You simply have to trust the OEM power rating and witness an improvement in power after making changes from a reliable baseline dyno. No one is going to be pulling engines from exotic cars to test bolt-on modifications.
Thanks for the info! - sounds like the days of ECU tuning are somewhat over ...
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:45 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I will inform you that it is virtually impossible to flash tune the new Continental Siemens ECUs that are being installed on all the newest Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren, Maserati, Mercedes, BMW, and Bentley cars.

These new Continental ECUs are encrypted and have multiple layers of protection and are often rewritten by the OEM manufacturers and checked or re-validated by the OEM manufacturers. With wifi and satellite communication the OEMs can check the system at will. No company anywhere has been able to properly crack and tune these new ECUs and from what I have been told you dont even want to tamper with them as you can not get full control and when they KNOW you have been inside the ECU's software the OEM's can rewrite and VOID your warranty. From what has been described to me its like Big Brother taking complete autonomous control.

Also, the newest Ferrari V8 Specialie and Porsche 991 GT3 cars have 14.5:1 CR and 12.9 CR respectively. On pump fuel I cant imagine any tuner can advance the timing significantly and even with 100 octane unleaded may make a difference but at $10/gallon I may be getting old but see the law of diminishing returns on these super HICR engines.

One thing you can be sure of is that the new 991 GT3 engine employs virtually the same heavy exhaust system as all the previous 997 GT3 cars. I have analyzed the systems in person and in Germany and IMHO I would swap out the GT3 headers.

If anyone is looking for maximum street legal power I would get a set of equal length GT3 headers with HJS German tri-metallic sports racing catalytic converters as in the past +16HP was gained along with sports car sound. Dyno graph of a 997.2 GT3RS is on my website. I would then consider eliminating the very heavy twin side mufflers on the engine. This eliminates alot of weight off the rear of the car and this the best place to remove weight on any 911 for performance and handling dynamics. On the rear of the car my Fabspeed mini maxflo mufflers added +7HP on the previous generation 997 GT3 cars.

Fabspeed Motorsport uses HJS German tri-metaliic ultra short highflow catalytic converters for these headers. I actually switched over to McLaren Mp4-12C cats for these ultra highflow headers. I have supplied many of these HJS catalytic converters along with super tight radius U & J bends to Todd Zuccone at Evolution Motorsports for his big GT3 engine packages.

If the car did not have to be emissions legal I would try a set of headers with NO catalytic converters and keep the pipe OD outlet small for maximum exhaust gas speed. On the previous generation GT3 cars NO cats added a few more HP but made the car extremely loud and you had a CEL.

Its a shame as I had a Guards RED 991 GT3 ordered several years ago and my build was kicked back over & over, read everything on this forum, and I bailed. I had several local 991 GT3 customers and their cars all waiting for engines.

A chassis DYNO is perfectly suited to test any of these cars engines and actually gives you true data delivered to the rear wheels. You simply have to trust the OEM power rating and witness an improvement in power after making changes from a reliable baseline dyno. No one is going to be pulling engines from exotic cars to test bolt-on modifications.
Thank you, very informative post. In regards to the side muffler delete, the weight loss is very tempting but wouldn't that increase sound to almost unacceptable levels (easily in excess of 100db) if driven anywhere but the track?
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Old 07-19-2014, 01:43 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I will inform you that it is virtually impossible to flash tune the new Continental Siemens ECUs that are being installed on all the newest Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren, Maserati, Mercedes, BMW, and Bentley cars.

These new Continental ECUs are encrypted and have multiple layers of protection and are often rewritten by the OEM manufacturers and checked or re-validated by the OEM manufacturers. With wifi and satellite communication the OEMs can check the system at will. No company anywhere has been able to properly crack and tune these new ECUs and from what I have been told you dont even want to tamper with them as you can not get full control and when they KNOW you have been inside the ECU's software the OEM's can rewrite and VOID your warranty. From what has been described to me its like Big Brother taking complete autonomous control.

Also, the newest Ferrari V8 Specialie and Porsche 991 GT3 cars have 14.5:1 CR and 12.9 CR respectively. On pump fuel I cant imagine any tuner can advance the timing significantly and even with 100 octane unleaded may make a difference but at $10/gallon I may be getting old but see the law of diminishing returns on these super HICR engines.

One thing you can be sure of is that the new 991 GT3 engine employs virtually the same heavy exhaust system as all the previous 997 GT3 cars. I have analyzed the systems in person and in Germany and IMHO I would swap out the GT3 headers.

If anyone is looking for maximum street legal power I would get a set of equal length GT3 headers with HJS German tri-metallic sports racing catalytic converters as in the past +16HP was gained along with sports car sound. Dyno graph of a 997.2 GT3RS is on my website. I would then consider eliminating the very heavy twin side mufflers on the engine. This eliminates alot of weight off the rear of the car and this the best place to remove weight on any 911 for performance and handling dynamics. On the rear of the car my Fabspeed mini maxflo mufflers added +7HP on the previous generation 997 GT3 cars.

Fabspeed Motorsport uses HJS German tri-metaliic ultra short highflow catalytic converters for these headers. I actually switched over to McLaren Mp4-12C cats for these ultra highflow headers. I have supplied many of these HJS catalytic converters along with super tight radius U & J bends to Todd Zuccone at Evolution Motorsports for his big GT3 engine packages.

If the car did not have to be emissions legal I would try a set of headers with NO catalytic converters and keep the pipe OD outlet small for maximum exhaust gas speed. On the previous generation GT3 cars NO cats added a few more HP but made the car extremely loud and you had a CEL.

Its a shame as I had a Guards RED 991 GT3 ordered several years ago and my build was kicked back over & over, read everything on this forum, and I bailed. I had several local 991 GT3 customers and their cars all waiting for engines.

A chassis DYNO is perfectly suited to test any of these cars engines and actually gives you true data delivered to the rear wheels. You simply have to trust the OEM power rating and witness an improvement in power after making changes from a reliable baseline dyno. No one is going to be pulling engines from exotic cars to test bolt-on modifications.
Thank you for that explanation.

I would like to get in and see what Siemens is using to keep the eventual owners of these cars honest. This chip is relatively new and never say never. All Encryption is Vunerable, and the methods the OEM uses can always be overcome. I sure hope it's not something as easy as a simple CRC32 to check for tampering with the CPUs.

But, and this is a Big But, where does this leave the tuners who need to get all of their modifications working in concert? And of course, thats for those folks who don't mind loosing their OEM warranty.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:01 PM
  #49  
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Tossing in some VP Import and let ECU relearn as fuel is heavily oxygenated and I bet you get dam close. Understanding that race gas with high octane along is not the key.
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