Tidbits from the Factory
#17
Sam, the guide told me that a typical hot run in would be about 20 minutes which obviously wouldn't be enough to break in the motor. My belief is that it would be similar to the dyno test and run in that used to be done on every air cooled motor. That run in was never considered a true "break-in" either.
Based on what I was told, the engines weren't run long enough to actually be broken in. Given the number of engines that were involved, just from a practical standpoint that seems to make sense to me. I think it will still come down to how each individual owner wants to handle their own break in. In my case, unless I find out differently, I will do my usual slightly more aggressive than factory break-in. In your case, you may be pulling 9001 rpm next week.
#18
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Belmont Shore in Long Beach CA
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Engine parts arrive in small shipments and sit in the staging area for no more than 90 minutes before being moved to the floor. There is enough inventory at any given time to build engines for only 0.8 of a day.
#19
Rennlist Member
Had an absolutely incredible day today. Did the Factory tour in the morning then met up with my Porsche Motorsport friend Henry in the afternoon. Guys like Henry are the reason why I know that Porsche still has people with a passion for building proper sports cars. He graciously arranged for a private tour of the Museum with one of the guides as well as giving me a personal in-depth look at the Restoration Shop.
Then Henry took me to an area that was so special that no pictures were allowed and I can't even be too specific about. I'll just ask; do you remember the scene from the end of the first Indiana Jones movie where they are taking the Ark of the Covenant to be stored away in the immense warehouse full of irreplaceable treasures? That's what it reminded me of. As a Porsche fan, I now know what heaven is like. I'll post some pics that I was able to take in other places when I get back.
My main reason for positing this now is that I asked a lot of questions related to our GT3's and found out a few things that folks may be interested in:
1) I didn't see a single GT3 on the assembly line. Our guide said that to the best of his knowledge 2014 GT3 production has been completed. Series production of 2015's won't start for several weeks.
2) The 2014 cars that are scheduled for engine replacement will NOT be reinserted into the production line. They will have their engines replaced at a separate location, in the same fashion as is being done for Cat A customers.
3) It varies according to what the ongoing problem rate is, but typically only 1% of engines are run in hot, with the remaining 99% tested cold on electric jigs. However, 100% of the replacement engines were run in hot, the same as in the old days with the hand built air cooled motors. This may be where the earlier rumors about every engine being completely broken in on the dyno came from.
4) The replacement engines were built on the same engine assembly line as the rest of the boxer motors. A third shift was added to provide the additional capacity.
I asked as many GT3 questions as I could without making a complete pest of myself, so sorry if I didn't get an answer to something that you might have thought important. It's also possible that I'm not remembering something relevant as I write this so ask and it may jog my memory.
Some other factoids not directly related but that I found interesting:
7% of all cars are still test driven on public roads.
It takes 7 hours from the time a painted body shell enters the assembly building to the time when the marriage of drivetrain and body occurs. The building process for the engine of that drivetrain doesn't begin until the body starts on the line.
Engine parts arrive in small shipments and sit in the staging area for no more than 90 minutes before being moved to the floor. There is enough inventory at any given time to build engines for only 0.8 of a day.
There are so many different combinations of options that on average in a 6 month period only 2 cars are produced that are exactly the same.
As a car and Porsche fan I can't imagine a better day that didn't actually involve driving.
Then Henry took me to an area that was so special that no pictures were allowed and I can't even be too specific about. I'll just ask; do you remember the scene from the end of the first Indiana Jones movie where they are taking the Ark of the Covenant to be stored away in the immense warehouse full of irreplaceable treasures? That's what it reminded me of. As a Porsche fan, I now know what heaven is like. I'll post some pics that I was able to take in other places when I get back.
My main reason for positing this now is that I asked a lot of questions related to our GT3's and found out a few things that folks may be interested in:
1) I didn't see a single GT3 on the assembly line. Our guide said that to the best of his knowledge 2014 GT3 production has been completed. Series production of 2015's won't start for several weeks.
2) The 2014 cars that are scheduled for engine replacement will NOT be reinserted into the production line. They will have their engines replaced at a separate location, in the same fashion as is being done for Cat A customers.
3) It varies according to what the ongoing problem rate is, but typically only 1% of engines are run in hot, with the remaining 99% tested cold on electric jigs. However, 100% of the replacement engines were run in hot, the same as in the old days with the hand built air cooled motors. This may be where the earlier rumors about every engine being completely broken in on the dyno came from.
4) The replacement engines were built on the same engine assembly line as the rest of the boxer motors. A third shift was added to provide the additional capacity.
I asked as many GT3 questions as I could without making a complete pest of myself, so sorry if I didn't get an answer to something that you might have thought important. It's also possible that I'm not remembering something relevant as I write this so ask and it may jog my memory.
Some other factoids not directly related but that I found interesting:
7% of all cars are still test driven on public roads.
It takes 7 hours from the time a painted body shell enters the assembly building to the time when the marriage of drivetrain and body occurs. The building process for the engine of that drivetrain doesn't begin until the body starts on the line.
Engine parts arrive in small shipments and sit in the staging area for no more than 90 minutes before being moved to the floor. There is enough inventory at any given time to build engines for only 0.8 of a day.
There are so many different combinations of options that on average in a 6 month period only 2 cars are produced that are exactly the same.
As a car and Porsche fan I can't imagine a better day that didn't actually involve driving.
if you are still around next week I could offer you a drive in my GT3 - I just got it today and I am super happy with it!!
Anyhow, have a great time and hope you will ahve your car when you return.
Cheers
peter
#20
Race Director
Thread Starter
Lol. They temporarily confiscated my camera! Did hear that they are "still sorting out some things with the RS" but no word on when it will debut.
OK, thanks. This is a great fact to know. I just heard my stickers won't arrive to Atlanta until early next week. If I get the car back by July 4th, I will be lucky. I can't go to the track any sooner than July 10th so I will drive up to 7,000 until then only. I am likely to drive 500-600 miles during that week. Ah well, maybe I should get a Pinto instead, take the entire exhaust off and call it a day. Frustrated.
Deming would be proud - Just in Time, he took it to the American's first but it was the Japanese who showed us it was the one and true was of saving money on housing parts for months that we they may never use. Besides - a Bespoke object such as a GT3 is a perfect example of such an exercise!
#21
Race Director
Thread Starter
Very kind of you Peter! We won't be coming back through Stuttgart; I would have loved to buy you "ein Pils". I love the beer here. So glad you have your car!
#22
No idea. Seems it didn't go with the rest of the "batch" or something to that effect. As to why this happened, they had no clue.
#23
Rennlist Member
Should have known earlier but was way to busy anyyhow and car would not have arrived any sooner. Was just able to get it out of the workshop today before they closed - another day of waiting possbily would have killed me
And do not worry about the Pils - I am probably the onyl German who does not drink bear
Have fun and return home safely to your red baby!
Peter
#26
#27
Rennlist Member
Thanks Mike for the summary and the information. Really fascinating.
It is also great to finally get a clarification about so called break in on the Dyno at the factory.
Did you get to ask them for any specific recommendations regarding the break in of the new engine, such what Macca got which was also very similar to one of my close friends heard last December when he picked his car from the factory. Just wondering if there is anything specific for the new engine. In my case I had a change of heart as I always followed for all of my prior Porsches including the original engine of the GT3 the manual break in procedure, and I decided this time around to follow what Macca and my friend advised and I am on 2nd gas tank and have managed to get RPM to 8k occasionally and probably plan to hit 9k by the third tank. Life is too short!
After reading your post, it made me more determined than ever to visit the factory hopefully next year. What an experience. Enjoy the rest of your trip and have a safe travels back. Mark
It is also great to finally get a clarification about so called break in on the Dyno at the factory.
Did you get to ask them for any specific recommendations regarding the break in of the new engine, such what Macca got which was also very similar to one of my close friends heard last December when he picked his car from the factory. Just wondering if there is anything specific for the new engine. In my case I had a change of heart as I always followed for all of my prior Porsches including the original engine of the GT3 the manual break in procedure, and I decided this time around to follow what Macca and my friend advised and I am on 2nd gas tank and have managed to get RPM to 8k occasionally and probably plan to hit 9k by the third tank. Life is too short!
After reading your post, it made me more determined than ever to visit the factory hopefully next year. What an experience. Enjoy the rest of your trip and have a safe travels back. Mark
#28
Thanks Mike for the summary and the information. Really fascinating.
It is also great to finally get a clarification about so called break in on the Dyno at the factory.
Did you get to ask them for any specific recommendations regarding the break in of the new engine, such what Macca got which was also very similar to one of my close friends heard last December when he picked his car from the factory. Just wondering if there is anything specific for the new engine. In my case I had a change of heart as I always followed for all of my prior Porsches including the original engine of the GT3 the manual break in procedure, and I decided this time around to follow what Macca and my friend advised and I am on 2nd gas tank and have managed to get RPM to 8k occasionally and probably plan to hit 9k by the third tank. Life is too short!
After reading your post, it made me more determined than ever to visit the factory hopefully next year. What an experience. Enjoy the rest of your trip and have a safe travels back. Mark
It is also great to finally get a clarification about so called break in on the Dyno at the factory.
Did you get to ask them for any specific recommendations regarding the break in of the new engine, such what Macca got which was also very similar to one of my close friends heard last December when he picked his car from the factory. Just wondering if there is anything specific for the new engine. In my case I had a change of heart as I always followed for all of my prior Porsches including the original engine of the GT3 the manual break in procedure, and I decided this time around to follow what Macca and my friend advised and I am on 2nd gas tank and have managed to get RPM to 8k occasionally and probably plan to hit 9k by the third tank. Life is too short!
After reading your post, it made me more determined than ever to visit the factory hopefully next year. What an experience. Enjoy the rest of your trip and have a safe travels back. Mark
#29
Race Director
Thread Starter
Thanks Mike for the summary and the information. Really fascinating.
It is also great to finally get a clarification about so called break in on the Dyno at the factory.
Did you get to ask them for any specific recommendations regarding the break in of the new engine, such what Macca got which was also very similar to one of my close friends heard last December when he picked his car from the factory. Just wondering if there is anything specific for the new engine. In my case I had a change of heart as I always followed for all of my prior Porsches including the original engine of the GT3 the manual break in procedure, and I decided this time around to follow what Macca and my friend advised and I am on 2nd gas tank and have managed to get RPM to 8k occasionally and probably plan to hit 9k by the third tank. Life is too short!
After reading your post, it made me more determined than ever to visit the factory hopefully next year. What an experience. Enjoy the rest of your trip and have a safe travels back. Mark
It is also great to finally get a clarification about so called break in on the Dyno at the factory.
Did you get to ask them for any specific recommendations regarding the break in of the new engine, such what Macca got which was also very similar to one of my close friends heard last December when he picked his car from the factory. Just wondering if there is anything specific for the new engine. In my case I had a change of heart as I always followed for all of my prior Porsches including the original engine of the GT3 the manual break in procedure, and I decided this time around to follow what Macca and my friend advised and I am on 2nd gas tank and have managed to get RPM to 8k occasionally and probably plan to hit 9k by the third tank. Life is too short!
After reading your post, it made me more determined than ever to visit the factory hopefully next year. What an experience. Enjoy the rest of your trip and have a safe travels back. Mark
Despite that, it was too hard for me to break 40+ years worth of break in habits. There's also the input from our RL friend Gary Sims (simsgw) who sadly passed away last year. Gary was an accomplished aerospace engineer and long time car guy. He and I had long e-mail discussions about metallurgy, thermodynamics, and NASA protocols (Gary "talked" and I "listened") and he reinforced my concerns about "abusing" new engines as legitimate. Of course that was just his opinion, but he was a smart guy and a gentleman that I miss greatly.
Anyway, I'm going to keep my car a long time and I know how I will be comfortable breaking in the engine. Others have a different comfort level and I appreciate that, so whatever makes you happy. Life is indeed too short!