997.2 GT3 RS vs 991 GT3
06-03-2014, 04:54 AM
#46
Three Wheelin'
FWIW, Horst Von Saurma (the guy who sets Nordschleife laptimes for Sport Auto magazine) says he prefers the 7.2 3.8RS.
Whole interview here - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=30067
Have you a favourite car?
"Yes I think it would have to be the Porsche GT3, not the current one but the last one, not the 4.0, the 3.8 RS. That would be my dream, if I could have that car here in a garage with some tyres this would be ... OK!" [Horst raced a 3.8 RS in street trim to 13th place overall in the 2010 Nurburgring 24-hour, sharing driving duties with Roland Asch, German TV commentator Patrick Simon and some bloke called Chris Harris...]
"Yes I think it would have to be the Porsche GT3, not the current one but the last one, not the 4.0, the 3.8 RS. That would be my dream, if I could have that car here in a garage with some tyres this would be ... OK!" [Horst raced a 3.8 RS in street trim to 13th place overall in the 2010 Nurburgring 24-hour, sharing driving duties with Roland Asch, German TV commentator Patrick Simon and some bloke called Chris Harris...]
06-03-2014, 08:53 AM
#47
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
FWIW, Horst Von Saurma (the guy who sets Nordschleife laptimes for Sport Auto magazine) says he prefers the 7.2 3.8RS.
Whole interview here - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=30067
Whole interview here - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=30067
06-03-2014, 09:13 AM
#48
Jeez big surprise which car he likes!
06-03-2014, 12:05 PM
#49
FWIW, Horst Von Saurma (the guy who sets Nordschleife laptimes for Sport Auto magazine) says he prefers the 7.2 3.8RS.
Whole interview here - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=30067
Whole interview here - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=30067
06-03-2014, 03:34 PM
#50
Also 997.2 GT3's came with Sport Cups. New car (991) comes with Sport Cup 2 which Michelin says is good for 1.5 sec improvement over a minute lap. Tirerack just started carrying 19 inch Cup 2 sizes for what its worth.
06-03-2014, 03:43 PM
#51
Race Director
Well, I wrote earlier in the thread that I chose the 997.2 rs for the experience even though the 991 gt3 was likely to be faster. His laptimes ( http://www.sportauto.de/rundenzeiten...ml?sort=ZeitNS ) would suggest, though, that the 991 GT3 isn't all that much faster. Around Nordschleife the 991 GT3 is 7.32 vs 7.33 for 997.2rs. Around Hockenheim that are dead even (1:09.6). As I said, my choice wasn't about laptimes but I still find this surprising, especially given that the 991 gt3 has some obvious performance advantages (PDK). What do you think it is? Tires? I also suspect that the average enthusiast's experience would be very different as it's probably much harder to extract this kind of pace from a 997.2rs than from a 991gt3.
06-03-2014, 06:28 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
. Also, I believe there was an issue with the car tested at Hockenheim; something about a software problem or some such that prevented it from achieving top performance. Again IIRC the car was returned to Porsche for evaluation. Maybe someone else remembers the details.
06-03-2014, 07:49 PM
#53
Would have to believe the base 991 C2S is as quick as the 997 GT3 for most of us. The suspension upgrades are massive over the 997. It all depends on what your looking for. The 996 GT3 guys clearly enjoy the satisfaction of driving a more involving and challenging car well.
06-03-2014, 11:05 PM
#54
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Would have to believe the base 991 C2S is as quick as the 997 GT3 for most of us. The suspension upgrades are massive over the 997. It all depends on what your looking for. The 996 GT3 guys clearly enjoy the satisfaction of driving a more involving and challenging car well.
More of a never ending argument though. In the end buy what makes your blood boil, independent of laptimes.
06-03-2014, 11:24 PM
#55
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06-04-2014, 09:52 AM
#56
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You are overlooking the the most important element - the engine!
The 997 engine is still raced to this day - yesterday in the TUSC race at Detroit, for example. Or in less than 2 weeks at Le Mans.
The 9A1 engine family has been available for public consumption since the 9X7.2 facelift for the 2009 model year, and obviously in development for longer. Porsche has had ample opportunity to race the engine, to prove the engine. Yet Porsche has never raced any variant of the 9A1 engine. Ever. Not even in their own Super Cup spec series. Absent the engine fires and recall, this is still extraordinarily damning; when you consider the events that have transpired since mid-February, it's comical. I prefer manual transmissions, but I'd rather a (hypothetical) Mezger engine mated to a PDK transmission over a (hypothetical) 991 GT3 engine mated to a stick.
The 997 engine is still raced to this day - yesterday in the TUSC race at Detroit, for example. Or in less than 2 weeks at Le Mans.
The 9A1 engine family has been available for public consumption since the 9X7.2 facelift for the 2009 model year, and obviously in development for longer. Porsche has had ample opportunity to race the engine, to prove the engine. Yet Porsche has never raced any variant of the 9A1 engine. Ever. Not even in their own Super Cup spec series. Absent the engine fires and recall, this is still extraordinarily damning; when you consider the events that have transpired since mid-February, it's comical. I prefer manual transmissions, but I'd rather a (hypothetical) Mezger engine mated to a PDK transmission over a (hypothetical) 991 GT3 engine mated to a stick.
I figure Porsche is using their consumer market with the GT3s and Turbos as a "Testing Program" to see how the 9A1 may perform as a true race platform. As of right now I would say 0 for 1 on that idea. Yet we all know most of the greatest programs have their growing pains!
06-04-2014, 04:41 PM
#57
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Would have to believe the base 991 C2S is as quick as the 997 GT3 for most of us. The suspension upgrades are massive over the 997. It all depends on what your looking for. The 996 GT3 guys clearly enjoy the satisfaction of driving a more involving and challenging car well.
I have often thought of the Scenario of purchasing a 996 3 and getting the Sharky 3.9 work done. Now there is the 4.1. Imagine for the bubble prices of the 997 GT3s/RS's you could be running around with a monster 996 4.1; well give or take a view grand here or there on either side of the model coin. That scares me, would need a lot of driver instruction to turn it up to 11.
Last edited by Tacet-Conundrum; 06-04-2014 at 04:58 PM.
06-04-2014, 11:28 PM
#58
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Yup, some of the 996 GT3 Acolytes will even tell you that it is a much more rewarding and thus enjoyable car to drive as a result of the lack of it's sophistication and driving aids and nannies. Just wish Porsche would have brought the RS version to the States. Does anyone know how many RS's of this model were built(?); as in qualifying The Bill Gate Show & Display exception? For some reason I believe they built too many to qualify knowing Porsche!
I have often thought of the Scenario of purchasing a 996 3 and getting the Sharky 3.9 work done. Now there is the 4.1. Imagine for the bubble prices of the 997 GT3s/RS's you could be running around with a monster 996 4.1; well give or take a view grand here or there on either side of the model coin. That scares me, would need a lot of driver instruction to turn it up to 11.
I have often thought of the Scenario of purchasing a 996 3 and getting the Sharky 3.9 work done. Now there is the 4.1. Imagine for the bubble prices of the 997 GT3s/RS's you could be running around with a monster 996 4.1; well give or take a view grand here or there on either side of the model coin. That scares me, would need a lot of driver instruction to turn it up to 11.
The 996 is the bastard stepchild of the 911 lineage, including the GT3 even though it has the Mez. Taking the bastard stepchild, dyeing its hair red and feeding it steroids will not make it more desirable.
Or fun to drive.
06-05-2014, 01:22 AM
#59
question - If RS is turbo'd and can go faster than 7:25 does that make it more desirable?
If answer to question is yes in this forum, then it confirms my understanding of the 991.
If answer to question is yes in this forum, then it confirms my understanding of the 991.
06-05-2014, 03:09 AM
#60
Race Director
Not for me. I suspected more than 2 1/2 years ago that the 991 version might be one of if not the last NA/non-hybrid iteration of the GT3. That's why I put down a deposit way back then and why I wanted the car. A hybrid or turbo GT3 or RS might be technically interesting and probably faster, but there's something about a high revving, NA car that does it for me. Don't know if that confirms your notion of a 991 buyer or not....
