997.2 GT3 RS vs 991 GT3
05-30-2014, 07:17 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=RayDBonz;11405172
The 997.2 is a better driver's car - among the best Porsche has made. Not so great as a daily driver, but an awesome weekender. However, I would not pay the current premium to get one.[/QUOTE]
I agree 100%. It very well may be the better drivers car but for the premium they are going for at the moment, I would not pay to get one either.
The 991 GT3 sure does raise my eyebrows though. And this is coming from someone who drives/ tracks a 996GT3 which is the polar opposite of 991 GT3 IMO, at least as far as street-ability goes. I appreciate and love the driving experience my 6GT3 delivers but I know I would enjoy what the 991 Gt3 delivers as well. As a bonus, I could enjoy it that much more on the street. Something I can't say about my 6GT3.
The 997.2 is a better driver's car - among the best Porsche has made. Not so great as a daily driver, but an awesome weekender. However, I would not pay the current premium to get one.[/QUOTE]
I agree 100%. It very well may be the better drivers car but for the premium they are going for at the moment, I would not pay to get one either.
The 991 GT3 sure does raise my eyebrows though. And this is coming from someone who drives/ tracks a 996GT3 which is the polar opposite of 991 GT3 IMO, at least as far as street-ability goes. I appreciate and love the driving experience my 6GT3 delivers but I know I would enjoy what the 991 Gt3 delivers as well. As a bonus, I could enjoy it that much more on the street. Something I can't say about my 6GT3.
05-30-2014, 07:35 PM
#17
If you are into collectables (assuming it is one worth having) then that may be a reason. Also, if the only way you can enjoy driving a car is masturbating with your left foot and right hand then I would agree. Otherwise, the 991 is faster, cheaper and the latest and greatest from Porsche.
BTW, who is to say that the 991 would not be a more sought out collectible?
BTW, who is to say that the 991 would not be a more sought out collectible?
So you've made your choice and everyone else is free to make their own.
05-30-2014, 07:37 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
my 2cents...the 997.1RS is more livable as a DD than the 997.2RS.
997.2 rear visability is poor, and the CF buckets are deep.
But, as a track weapon, the sound of the 997.2 reminds me of my 6Cup at WOT.
Looking forward to hearing my '14GT3 at 9k!
997.2 rear visability is poor, and the CF buckets are deep.
But, as a track weapon, the sound of the 997.2 reminds me of my 6Cup at WOT.
Looking forward to hearing my '14GT3 at 9k!
05-31-2014, 12:36 AM
#19
The 997.2 RS will not be able to hold its current premium pricing UNLESS the GT3 fails in some self-imploding way ... each of us is making a best guess likelihood about this. Personally, think it very unlikely this GT3 will fail to deliver reliability.
For those with axes to grind betting the GT3 will fail, only precious few weeks remain to sell the 997.2 RS at a premium price ...
05-31-2014, 01:15 AM
#20
On a 991 board, I understand the bias toward that car. Disgusting references to having three pedals notwithstanding.
Personally, I find the .2 RS more visceral to drive than a McLaren 12C or an Italia or an 1100hp GTR or a ZR1.
Paddle shifting is why there is a debate within the same car family. If I compare paddle shifters, the GT3 is behind the Italia and the McLaren for different reasons (458 for sound and excitement, Mc for smoothness). It competes though and is less expensive.
Personally, I find the .2 RS more visceral to drive than a McLaren 12C or an Italia or an 1100hp GTR or a ZR1.
Paddle shifting is why there is a debate within the same car family. If I compare paddle shifters, the GT3 is behind the Italia and the McLaren for different reasons (458 for sound and excitement, Mc for smoothness). It competes though and is less expensive.
05-31-2014, 03:22 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
When the 991 GT3 slips ahead of the 997.2 RS at the track repeatedly, weekend after weekend, the 997.2 RS will indeed truly become a collector's car ...
The 997.2 RS will not be able to hold its current premium pricing UNLESS the GT3 fails in some self-imploding way ... each of us is making a best guess likelihood about this. Personally, think it very unlikely this GT3 will fail to deliver reliability.
For those with axes to grind betting the GT3 will fail, only precious few weeks remain to sell the 997.2 RS at a premium price ...
The 997.2 RS will not be able to hold its current premium pricing UNLESS the GT3 fails in some self-imploding way ... each of us is making a best guess likelihood about this. Personally, think it very unlikely this GT3 will fail to deliver reliability.
For those with axes to grind betting the GT3 will fail, only precious few weeks remain to sell the 997.2 RS at a premium price ...
05-31-2014, 12:15 PM
#22
Drifting
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Each new version will bring us a better performing, and more expensive, version of the previous version from Porsche.
Just one thing that Porsche 'So Called' taking the 911 Up-Market was just horse apples. It's just justification on raising the price literally 10% to 15% over MSRP.
Sorry for going off topic there at the end. I don't really see a 10% to 15% increase in quality, or marginal utility to myself..
Last edited by Tacet-Conundrum; 05-31-2014 at 12:18 PM. Reason: The Gonzo needs no reasons...
05-31-2014, 12:55 PM
#23
I've had a gt3rs and loved it.
But those that are saying it's better than a 991 gt3 for any other reason than collectibility have probably not driven a new gt3 extensively.
I've got 2k miles on my 991 gt3 and would say that if they offered a manual trans in this car, I would opt for the pdk. It's that good.
And with a bypass exhaust, it sounds as good/better than a 997 3...
But those that are saying it's better than a 991 gt3 for any other reason than collectibility have probably not driven a new gt3 extensively.
I've got 2k miles on my 991 gt3 and would say that if they offered a manual trans in this car, I would opt for the pdk. It's that good.
And with a bypass exhaust, it sounds as good/better than a 997 3...
05-31-2014, 01:53 PM
#24
I really think your choice depends on what you are looking for. Once the engine issues are resolved the 991 gt3 will likely be faster and 991 gt3 rs much faster than the 997.2 rs. That's a given. Anything other than that will be a suicidal and Porsche is a smart, capable company that isn't suicidal! Having said that, i just bought a 997.2 rs at what many of you would consider an inflated price. Here is why:
1. Manual transmission. PDK is the future. It's technically superior and you just can't stop progress. It's very likely that in a few years the manual transmission will become a thing of the past across the industry. I recognize that any new car i buy in a year or two will have a PDK or equivalent. I still like manuals, though, and want to be able to have the manual experience in 5, 10, 15yrs. I found myself looking around for a great manual car and felt 997.2 rs was the best choice.
2. I do like the 997 look better than 991. I think it's admirable that Porsche has bucked the trend and has kept weight down. Unlike weight, though, dimensions have increased a lot and the 991 has, in my eyes, gone a step too far. To me it's beginning to look more like a GT rather than a sports car ( i admit i'm weird that way - if I could i'd shrink the 997 to the dimensions of a 993). Similar story with the interior - I like the traditional no nonsense simplicity of 911 interior. The 991 interior looks too shiny, too fancy to me. It's just a personal, subjective preference.
3. I want an awesome old school car - no torque vectoring, rws, fewer electronic aids, etc. I love the steering feel and even little things such as the fact that when i slow down i can distinctly hear the sound of little stones hitting the undercarriage, just like in a race car. I have the fear (maybe unfounded) that Porsche's push toward efficiency, sophistication, and outright speeds will take away these intangibles that may sound stupid to many of you and irrelevant to an engineer, but are important to me. I think of the amount by which I'm overpaying as an insurance against that fear.
I guess what i'm saying in a very long winded way is that if you want outright speed you should go for 991 gt3 or even wait for the 991 rs. If you are more into the experience than outright speed, then the 997.2 rs may or may not be for you. It depends on what kind of experience you want. For me it's the perfect car for a weekend blast...
1. Manual transmission. PDK is the future. It's technically superior and you just can't stop progress. It's very likely that in a few years the manual transmission will become a thing of the past across the industry. I recognize that any new car i buy in a year or two will have a PDK or equivalent. I still like manuals, though, and want to be able to have the manual experience in 5, 10, 15yrs. I found myself looking around for a great manual car and felt 997.2 rs was the best choice.
2. I do like the 997 look better than 991. I think it's admirable that Porsche has bucked the trend and has kept weight down. Unlike weight, though, dimensions have increased a lot and the 991 has, in my eyes, gone a step too far. To me it's beginning to look more like a GT rather than a sports car ( i admit i'm weird that way - if I could i'd shrink the 997 to the dimensions of a 993). Similar story with the interior - I like the traditional no nonsense simplicity of 911 interior. The 991 interior looks too shiny, too fancy to me. It's just a personal, subjective preference.
3. I want an awesome old school car - no torque vectoring, rws, fewer electronic aids, etc. I love the steering feel and even little things such as the fact that when i slow down i can distinctly hear the sound of little stones hitting the undercarriage, just like in a race car. I have the fear (maybe unfounded) that Porsche's push toward efficiency, sophistication, and outright speeds will take away these intangibles that may sound stupid to many of you and irrelevant to an engineer, but are important to me. I think of the amount by which I'm overpaying as an insurance against that fear.
I guess what i'm saying in a very long winded way is that if you want outright speed you should go for 991 gt3 or even wait for the 991 rs. If you are more into the experience than outright speed, then the 997.2 rs may or may not be for you. It depends on what kind of experience you want. For me it's the perfect car for a weekend blast...
05-31-2014, 02:04 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
I really think your choice depends on what you are looking for. Once the engine issues are resolved the 991 gt3 will likely be faster and 991 gt3 rs much faster than the 997.2 rs. That's a given. Anything other than that will be a suicidal and Porsche is a smart, capable company that isn't suicidal! Having said that, i just bought a 997.2 rs at what many of you would consider an inflated price. Here is why:
1. Manual transmission. PDK is the future. It's technically superior and you just can't stop progress. It's very likely that in a few years the manual transmission will become a thing of the past across the industry. I recognize that any new car i buy in a year or two will have a PDK or equivalent. I still like manuals, though, and want to be able to have the manual experience in 5, 10, 15yrs. I found myself looking around for a great manual car and felt 997.2 rs was the best choice.
2. I do like the 997 look better than 991. I think it's admirable that Porsche has bucked the trend and has kept weight down. Unlike weight, though, dimensions have increased a lot and the 991 has, in my eyes, gone a step too far. To me it's beginning to look more like a GT rather than a sports car ( i admit i'm weird that way - if I could i'd shrink the 997 to the dimensions of a 993). Similar story with the interior - I like the traditional no nonsense simplicity of 911 interior. The 991 interior looks too shiny, too fancy to me. It's just a personal, subjective preference.
3. I want an awesome old school car - no torque vectoring, rws, fewer electronic aids, etc. I love the steering feel and even little things such as the fact that when i slow down i can distinctly hear the sound of little stones hitting the undercarriage, just like in a race car. I have the fear (maybe unfounded) that Porsche's push toward efficiency, sophistication, and outright speeds will take away these intangibles that may sound stupid to many of you and irrelevant to an engineer, but are important to me. I think of the amount by which I'm overpaying as an insurance against that fear.
I guess what i'm saying in a very long winded way is that if you want outright speed you should go for 991 gt3 or even wait for the 991 rs. If you are more into the experience than outright speed, then the 997.2 rs may or may not be for you. It depends on what kind of experience you want. For me it's the perfect car for a weekend blast...
1. Manual transmission. PDK is the future. It's technically superior and you just can't stop progress. It's very likely that in a few years the manual transmission will become a thing of the past across the industry. I recognize that any new car i buy in a year or two will have a PDK or equivalent. I still like manuals, though, and want to be able to have the manual experience in 5, 10, 15yrs. I found myself looking around for a great manual car and felt 997.2 rs was the best choice.
2. I do like the 997 look better than 991. I think it's admirable that Porsche has bucked the trend and has kept weight down. Unlike weight, though, dimensions have increased a lot and the 991 has, in my eyes, gone a step too far. To me it's beginning to look more like a GT rather than a sports car ( i admit i'm weird that way - if I could i'd shrink the 997 to the dimensions of a 993). Similar story with the interior - I like the traditional no nonsense simplicity of 911 interior. The 991 interior looks too shiny, too fancy to me. It's just a personal, subjective preference.
3. I want an awesome old school car - no torque vectoring, rws, fewer electronic aids, etc. I love the steering feel and even little things such as the fact that when i slow down i can distinctly hear the sound of little stones hitting the undercarriage, just like in a race car. I have the fear (maybe unfounded) that Porsche's push toward efficiency, sophistication, and outright speeds will take away these intangibles that may sound stupid to many of you and irrelevant to an engineer, but are important to me. I think of the amount by which I'm overpaying as an insurance against that fear.
I guess what i'm saying in a very long winded way is that if you want outright speed you should go for 991 gt3 or even wait for the 991 rs. If you are more into the experience than outright speed, then the 997.2 rs may or may not be for you. It depends on what kind of experience you want. For me it's the perfect car for a weekend blast...
06-01-2014, 11:08 AM
#26
in terms of transmissions,
one is the first, the other is the last
in terms of steering,
one is HPAS, the other is EPAS
forget the steering.
in terms of transmissions,
one is the first, the other is the last
so what do you want.
oh i forget, both are fast, but 1 of them is faster. which series do you race in? or do you participate in DEs that can only overtake on straights and point bys. Have you tried a Radical on track? Do you even know aero?
if you know all of that and intend to use the 991 GT3 as such, get the cup car. It's the one you really want.
one is the first, the other is the last
in terms of steering,
one is HPAS, the other is EPAS
forget the steering.
in terms of transmissions,
one is the first, the other is the last
so what do you want.
oh i forget, both are fast, but 1 of them is faster. which series do you race in? or do you participate in DEs that can only overtake on straights and point bys. Have you tried a Radical on track? Do you even know aero?
if you know all of that and intend to use the 991 GT3 as such, get the cup car. It's the one you really want.
06-01-2014, 02:13 PM
#27
Race Director
For me the biggest factor in the 991 GT3 versus 997 RS decision would be getting a new car rather than a used one.
Set aside the issues of gearbox choice, engine heritage, and the fact that the 991 GT3 is more up to date, has more HP, and will be quicker than an RS given the same driver. For approximately similar pricing, I'd much rather have a new car with a full warranty that I can break in and maintain the way I think is proper, rather than one with little or no warranty that has probably been thrashed from day 1 either because the owner had no intention of keeping the car long term or because he/she believes running the engine to redline off the dealer's lot is appropriate.
Set aside the issues of gearbox choice, engine heritage, and the fact that the 991 GT3 is more up to date, has more HP, and will be quicker than an RS given the same driver. For approximately similar pricing, I'd much rather have a new car with a full warranty that I can break in and maintain the way I think is proper, rather than one with little or no warranty that has probably been thrashed from day 1 either because the owner had no intention of keeping the car long term or because he/she believes running the engine to redline off the dealer's lot is appropriate.
06-01-2014, 02:35 PM
#28
Drifting
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Personally,I really hope the 991GT3 turns out to be a great car and very desirable/reliable,not just for the folks I have met on this forum,which seem to be quality people from conversations we had online and offline,but it will also mean that the 997.2GT3/RS prices will drop to a more realistic value and I'll be able to ****** one. 
We are certain to see the bottom falling somewhat with the 997 GT3s but not to the absolute level the values were before the 991s catching fire. But being the last generation of the manual GT3s, thats all they really have going for them.
Cant wait to see some company come out with a beefed up 991 7 Speed Manual to give what some owners want; an 991 GT3 with manual transmission.
06-01-2014, 05:55 PM
#29
Drifting
The fires for sure created a bubble because folks who have to have it "right now" drove the value up along with the greedier dealerships.
We are certain to see the bottom falling somewhat with the 997 GT3s but not to the absolute level the values were before the 991s catching fire. But being the last generation of the manual GT3s, thats all they really have going for them.
Cant wait to see some company come out with a beefed up 991 7 Speed Manual to give what some owners want; an 991 GT3 with manual transmission.
We are certain to see the bottom falling somewhat with the 997 GT3s but not to the absolute level the values were before the 991s catching fire. But being the last generation of the manual GT3s, thats all they really have going for them.
Cant wait to see some company come out with a beefed up 991 7 Speed Manual to give what some owners want; an 991 GT3 with manual transmission.
The 997 engine is still raced to this day - yesterday in the TUSC race at Detroit, for example. Or in less than 2 weeks at Le Mans.
The 9A1 engine family has been available for public consumption since the 9X7.2 facelift for the 2009 model year, and obviously in development for longer. Porsche has had ample opportunity to race the engine, to prove the engine. Yet Porsche has never raced any variant of the 9A1 engine. Ever. Not even in their own Super Cup spec series. Absent the engine fires and recall, this is still extraordinarily damning; when you consider the events that have transpired since mid-February, it's comical. I prefer manual transmissions, but I'd rather a (hypothetical) Mezger engine mated to a PDK transmission over a (hypothetical) 991 GT3 engine mated to a stick.
06-01-2014, 06:23 PM
#30
On a 991 board, I understand the bias toward that car. Disgusting references to having three pedals notwithstanding.
Personally, I find the .2 RS more visceral to drive than a McLaren 12C or an Italia or an 1100hp GTR or a ZR1.
Paddle shifting is why there is a debate within the same car family. If I compare paddle shifters, the GT3 is behind the Italia and the McLaren for different reasons (458 for sound and excitement, Mc for smoothness). It competes though and is less expensive.
Personally, I find the .2 RS more visceral to drive than a McLaren 12C or an Italia or an 1100hp GTR or a ZR1.
Paddle shifting is why there is a debate within the same car family. If I compare paddle shifters, the GT3 is behind the Italia and the McLaren for different reasons (458 for sound and excitement, Mc for smoothness). It competes though and is less expensive.
My '14 GT-R was 1200 HP and now have over 1000 track miles on the 458 waiting for the GT3.
Being honest, I'm now only going off memory since it's been a LOOOOOONG time since I've tracked mine back in January, but I'd still take the GT3 hands down, "7 days a week and twice on Sunday" over any of the aforementioned cars in this thread. No comparison.
Last edited by est8esq; 02-12-2015 at 10:26 PM.