paradoxical3

I agree it should be a driver's car, which is why it makes sense to spec options like torque vectoring and sport suspension. I also want the PDK. A GTS without a single option besides those (except for platinum satin wheels) is $82,355.

Then the questions is, are you okay living without automatic climate control, heated or vented seats, or even automatic dimming mirrors? To me those things do not detract from driving enjoyment (or add any weight, except for the heated seats) whatsoever - they are only a net plus. You can't order most things a-la-carte, which means you need to get the packages. And you can't get the packages with those things in them without springing for the 18 way seats because Porsche, in their infinite wisdom, ties them together.

And thus, if you want a PDK Cayman GTS that has basic features like automatically dimming mirrors and keyless entry, you wind up at 92k very quickly. Where the Cayman GTS perhaps makes sense is as a pure track car, in manual spec only. But even then, a Z06 is a much better option as all the arguments for the Porsche being more refined go right out the window.

If you are buying the GTS to enjoy on the street as well, then the price is stratospheric for what the car offers.

Gt3Fan

You think the primary differences and why many prefer the cayman/boxster over the z06 is because of options/refinement?!

kosmo

"Im having a rewind on PDK" ?
Whats he saying?!

neanicu

The TRUTH my friend...The TRUTH!

paradoxical3

No, and perhaps I communicated that incorrectly. I get the whole mid vs front engine, looks, etc thing. But the reality of the situation is that if you remove daily driver/comfort capabilities and compare just the on-track performance of cars in that price range, the Cayman GTS falls behind. Of course, other intangibles are involved as well (mid-engine feel). As someone who absolutely loves the Cayman platform, I find myself wanting to buy a GTS very much but looking at 911 c2s because I can't get my head around a $80-90k car with 340hp.

I track frequently (Mid-Ohio is my home track) so I understand that it's not all about straight line speed. But for me, I would be irritated every time a BMW or Mercedes SUV (or hell, a Hyundai Genesis) blew me away. Likewise, I would also be irritated that my 75k base car doesn't come with auto dimming mirrors.

The only way a Cayman GTS is justifiable from a price standpoint is if you just love it. And that's totally fine and a 100% legitimate reason to buy it. But by the numbers it falls short. It's a personal thing and neither one is better than the other - buy the car that speaks to you. 340hp for 80-90k just personally isn't my thing.

If the Cayman had 400hp (like the GT4 is rumored to have) than I wouldn't be having this discussion. Let's not pretend I'm the first one to bring up this criticism of the Cayman either, it's mentioned all over these forums in in virtually every review.

The bottom line is that Porsche is pricing the Cayman as a comparable model to the 911. You can load up a Cayman GTS to over 120k without ticking every option! All I'm saying is that if they are pricing it as a comparable model, they should unleash the performance to a comparable level.

Manifold

Sport suspension, manual tranny, no torque vectoring, regular brakes, no cosmetic options, track tires. The price will be reasonable (much less than 991S or GT3) and the car will be plenty fast.

neanicu

http://www.porsche-code.com/PFGXAZZ6

paradoxical3

Considering the GT3 is PDK only it's not really fair to compare the price of a manual GTS against it. And any GT3 buyer is going to tick the torque vectoring checkmark.

Gt3Fan

Have you driven a 981 S?

I'll assume you're joking about a merc suv or bmw blowing a gts away on a track.

I think it's funny, that people think an additional 50hp or so will make them so much faster at the track, when I see guys driving miata's blowing cars away with double/triple the HP. Most, can't get anywhere near 100% out of their car on the track. And instead of focusing on learning how to drive faster, they always think the car with more hp will make the difference. If you just care about HP,you should just go for the vett, HP per buck, it's tough to beat. If you care about the feel of a car and how much you enjoy it and feel confident in it, than the cayman could be the right fit.

Test drive them and then I would like to hear your feedback on if you think the P car is worth the $$.

I do agree with you regarding options though, but that goes across all manufactures at this point, disgusting to say the least, that the often most basics don't come standard with cars in this price range. But no use complaining about it, it is what it is.

I currently I have a 981 boxster S and am on the list for the GT3 and while I would have gone for a gts over the S, I did test drive all kinds of 997's and went with the 981.

THe GT4, I am very excited for and if it was coming out sooner, I would likely choose it over the GT3

paradoxical3

I was actually referring to being blown away on the street (and somewhat facetiously), but now that you mention it I have personally blown by numerous 981's and 991's in a 350WHP BMW X1 on the track ($500 tune gets 80whp since it's a turbo engine). Ask anyone that went to the Founders club PCA event at Mid Ohio earlier this month. There's no doubt in a pro driver's hands the Cayman S will be faster, but every straight it's going to get passed by the X1.

The Cayman is obviously significantly more fun to drive, but it is at such a deficit of power in a straight line it would bother me. I have driven the new Cayman S and the extraordinarily fun experience is what got me looking at NA Porsches. I just think it's very slow in a straight line for the price. And it is exceptionally slow compared to a GT3, especially for the price. Personally, I am not willing to sacrifice that kind of straight line speed if I am going to spend that much. My perspective is somewhat skewed though, coming from a 450lb/ft torque daily driver. Again, I am NOT saying the Cayman is slow objectively. Just that it is underpowered compared to nearly every other car in the price range.

Keep in mind this is just my opinion personally - these are all phenomenal cars we are talking about, and as with anything in life, different strokes for different folks. I liked the Cayman so much that I have been researching ECU mods and headers, hoping that with just a bit more power I would be satisfied. But it seems these 981 cars are exceptionally hard to modify for power due to the encrypted ECU. I guess I just have a bit of redneck in me in that I love straight line speed in addition to the road course, despite being from the north east.

Dr.Bill

I wouldn't put money on that. PTV just wears rear brakes faster. I'd opt out if at all possible. I'd also opt out of 20" wheels, center lock hubs, rear wheel steering, etc.

I'm sure the Cayman GTS will be a nice, comfy street car. As will the new GT3. I'd still grab the Cayman R keys if I was headed to the track.

john weires

I have a 2011 Spyder, a car that can't be too far off the Cayman GTS performance mark. I still am keeping my GT3 on order.
The GTS does not have enough hsp for me nor does it have the additional practicality of the rear seat area in a 911.

paradoxical3

From what I understand, PTV gives you a real mechanical locking diff and it's the only way to get one on a 981 from the factory. That's a big deal. I can't see a potential GT3 buyer ignoring that when contemplating whether or not to buy the GTS.

ExMB

Would it be safe to assume that by this statement you mean that you were hard to pass on straights but yet could not loose them ever in turns.

+1

Last event I went to there was a guy in a 997.1 turbo being chased around the course by 2 944 SP1 racers. The turbo beat them on the straights but held up the 944s through the turns and overall. The turbo only stayed 1 day; not sure if it was because he was talked to and ask to pay attention to the flags or not. Perfect example of driver capability versus car hp.

paradoxical3

Not at all, I made up ground everywhere including turns. WOT early-apex with 450lb/ft of torque through AWD can hide a lot of chassis sins. But in all honesty this is likely a function of driver skill and me being more familiar with the track than those driving the 981's. This is what I was implying by saying "in a pro driver's hands" the Cayman would undoubtedly be faster than a BMW suv. But I'll tell you what - they Cayman S isn't 5 seconds faster. Maybe 2-3 at most. And a lot of that is absolutely due to lack of power. It should be a lot faster around a circuit than it actually is, given how fantastic the chassis is. Look at laptimes for the Cayman S vs 911 S to illustrate my point - on faster circuits the 911 will always pull away, strictly because of the engine output.

But we are not pro drivers, are we? And on the street, I don't care if you're Senna - the Cayman S is going to be left in the dust by many, many different cars. Including many grocery getters. Call me vain or immature, I don't really care - that would bother me if I'm spending that much money.

Look at this another way - ask yourself the question, "Which would be more beneficial for the Cayman S (including on the track) - a stiffer chassis or another 60 horsepower?"

Everyone on the board knows the answer to that question. The Cayman GTS is just not going to steal orders from the GT3 because it's so underpowered in comparison.