Jag better steering feel than 991?
03-28-2014, 10:23 AM
#31
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I thought that I had read in another post that you were an engineer, apologies for misremembering, I would have replied slightly differently (or more probably just not bothered)
the hydraulic rack applies linear force, the electric system provides torque (from the motor) which then needs to be converted from this rotational force into linear force on the rack using a roller screw gear (on the porsche).
roller screw gears used to be used on steering gears before rack and pinion. its not a new approach in itself.
03-28-2014, 01:04 PM
#32
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Even parking requires no real muscle.
03-28-2014, 02:20 PM
#33
Race Director
well linear force would be a good start since torque is specifically a rotational force (ie applied in conjunction with a pivot point).
I thought that I had read in another post that you were an engineer, apologies for misremembering, I would have replied slightly differently (or more probably just not bothered)
the hydraulic rack applies linear force, the electric system provides torque (from the motor) which then needs to be converted from this rotational force into linear force on the rack using a roller screw gear (on the porsche).
roller screw gears used to be used on steering gears before rack and pinion. its not a new approach in itself.
I thought that I had read in another post that you were an engineer, apologies for misremembering, I would have replied slightly differently (or more probably just not bothered)
the hydraulic rack applies linear force, the electric system provides torque (from the motor) which then needs to be converted from this rotational force into linear force on the rack using a roller screw gear (on the porsche).
roller screw gears used to be used on steering gears before rack and pinion. its not a new approach in itself.
The bottom line is that, by your own explanation above, "linear force" ends up being applied to the steering mechanism in either case. The fact that it starts out as torque from an electric motor and is converted to a linear force in the case of EAS isn't relevant in and of itself. What is relevant is how that force is applied and controlled and there's no inherent reason why an electrically assisted steering system can't ultimately be just as good as a hydraulic one. When hydraulic systems first replaced manual rack and pinion systems in Porsches they weren't all that great either. FWIW, the EAS in the 991 GT3 IS very good, even if some think it gives a bit less meaningful feedback than the steering in the 997 GT3.
03-28-2014, 02:53 PM
#34
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No reason to be a sarcastic d*ck ("thought you were an engineer.....etc."). We were just having a conversation, so I thought, although after reading your first truly unintelligible comment (Post #21) I wasn't sure how to approach the subject with you at all. Are you really so insecure that you have to immediately go into attack mode when someone disagrees with you?
The bottom line is that, by your own explanation above, "linear force" ends up being applied to the steering mechanism in either case. The fact that it starts out as torque from an electric motor and is converted to a linear force in the case of EAS isn't relevant in and of itself. What is relevant is how that force is applied and controlled and there's no inherent reason why an electrically assisted steering system can't ultimately be just as good as a hydraulic one. When hydraulic systems first replaced manual rack and pinion systems in Porsches they weren't all that great either. FWIW, the EAS in the 991 GT3 IS very good, even if some think it gives a bit less meaningful feedback than the steering in the 997 GT3.
The bottom line is that, by your own explanation above, "linear force" ends up being applied to the steering mechanism in either case. The fact that it starts out as torque from an electric motor and is converted to a linear force in the case of EAS isn't relevant in and of itself. What is relevant is how that force is applied and controlled and there's no inherent reason why an electrically assisted steering system can't ultimately be just as good as a hydraulic one. When hydraulic systems first replaced manual rack and pinion systems in Porsches they weren't all that great either. FWIW, the EAS in the 991 GT3 IS very good, even if some think it gives a bit less meaningful feedback than the steering in the 997 GT3.
I was certain that you had mentioned in another thread that you were an engineer. I had been going to joke about whether you were electricial, but since there is a motor involved refrained incase that was misconstrued, or indeed you actually were an electrical engineer and it wasnt taken with the light heart in which it was made since I do not know you.
If you think i was being sarcastic then i of course apologise, as I do for incorrectly having thought you were an engineer (note for the sake of clarity, both genuinely intended)
There is a lot of sand in folks underwears in these parts and its tiring trying to navigate it all but I for sure was trying.
I assume the mahoosive portion of irony lumped in your post is lost? Do you subscribe wholly to a napoleonic approach to relations, "On S'engage; Et Puis, On Voit"
Perhaps a re-read of my post may be in order, with a non sarcasm assuming viewpoint taken?
As for the rest. Poppycock.
03-28-2014, 08:32 PM
#39
Banned
Not the R but I remembered this R&T comparo btw the F type and a Boxster S last year at Limerock and on the surrounding roads.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...s-65-1-roa0813
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...s-65-1-roa0813
...the Boxster just ran off into the distance. It turned 1:02s in the hands of your rapid Editor-in-Chief Larry Webster, while the best he could do in the Jag was more than two seconds slower.
In the end, we found ourselves searching for that one special feature that would tip the scales—and found it, sitting in the bright sun, in pit lane. The Jag, in all its magisterial whiteness. And where was the Boxster? Why, out on the track, tearing around, a true driver's car, one that makes you want to do another lap, and another after that, and then take the long way home.
03-29-2014, 12:37 AM
#42
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New to Rennlist (first post) and thought I would christen with a view on the Jag: have driven it and while it is supposed to be a 911 killer I can say that IMHO it scratches but certainly doesn't kill...And this is from a Brit so if I was going to be biased about any car it would be this one 
03-29-2014, 01:02 AM
#43
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Where does he say it is "weak"? Here is his 2014 c7 versus 991 review, and he praises the 991:
QUOTE="0Q991;11245963"]From CH's early Evo review of the 991 to his recent (last several weeks / couple of months) /DRIVE reviews of the 991 (forgot if if was C2S or C4S), he went from praising the car to saying (several times) in this video that it was "weak"... A bit weird.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE="0Q991;11245963"]From CH's early Evo review of the 991 to his recent (last several weeks / couple of months) /DRIVE reviews of the 991 (forgot if if was C2S or C4S), he went from praising the car to saying (several times) in this video that it was "weak"... A bit weird.[/QUOTE]
03-29-2014, 01:06 AM
#44
Where does he say it is "weak"? Here is his 2014 c7 versus 991 review, and he praises the 991: Video Link: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPSr7ZWnYQ QUOTE="0Q991;11245963"]From CH's early Evo review of the 991 to his recent (last several weeks / couple of months) /DRIVE reviews of the 991 (forgot if if was C2S or C4S), he went from praising the car to saying (several times) in this video that it was "weak"... A bit weird.
Watch the F Type R video from /DRIVE this week--he says something to the effect of "the 911 is the weakest it's been in quite some time" and he says it a couple of different times, including near the end. I won't watch the video again to note the time markers of when he says it, but he certainly does. What's odd is that all his previous reviews and comparison drives with various 991 variants (even as recent as one with a yellow c2s, I believe also on /DRIVE), he praises the 991.
It's odd bc I've only ever heard him say usually positive things about the 991.
03-29-2014, 01:15 AM
#45
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Thanks. I'll look at that review.
Watch the F Type R video from /DRIVE this week--he says something to the effect of "the 911 is the weakest it's been in quite some time" and he says it a couple of different times, including near the end. I won't watch the video again to note the time markers of when he says it, but he certainly does. What's odd is that all his previous reviews and comparison drives with various 991 variants (even as recent as one with a yellow c2s, I believe also on /DRIVE), he praises the 991. It's odd bc I've only ever heard him say usually positive things about the 991.[/QUOTE]
Watch the F Type R video from /DRIVE this week--he says something to the effect of "the 911 is the weakest it's been in quite some time" and he says it a couple of different times, including near the end. I won't watch the video again to note the time markers of when he says it, but he certainly does. What's odd is that all his previous reviews and comparison drives with various 991 variants (even as recent as one with a yellow c2s, I believe also on /DRIVE), he praises the 991. It's odd bc I've only ever heard him say usually positive things about the 991.[/QUOTE]