Compensation
03-19-2014, 03:41 AM
#18
Former Vendor
Extended warranty, compensation for the loss-of-use period, loaner vehicle.
For buyers who paid a premium over MSRP, the compensation for loss-of-use period should include a refund of the premium. Premiums were paid to get the cars early, and that didn't happen.
For buyers who paid a premium over MSRP, the compensation for loss-of-use period should include a refund of the premium. Premiums were paid to get the cars early, and that didn't happen.
03-19-2014, 05:36 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Assuming you want to keep it:
1. CPO equivalent extension to 6yr/100k, transferable to any future buyers. This is to bolster the manufacturer credibility that was lost when the brand new car they sold you manifested a fatal flaw in the first two months of ownership.
2. Cash for loss of use, equivalent to lease payments for the time out of service.
3. Option for buyback at 100% of sales contract price within the first 18 months of ownership should the car exhibit any further engine related issues. Stand behind your product and own it if you f'up again.
1. CPO equivalent extension to 6yr/100k, transferable to any future buyers. This is to bolster the manufacturer credibility that was lost when the brand new car they sold you manifested a fatal flaw in the first two months of ownership.
2. Cash for loss of use, equivalent to lease payments for the time out of service.
3. Option for buyback at 100% of sales contract price within the first 18 months of ownership should the car exhibit any further engine related issues. Stand behind your product and own it if you f'up again.
The extended warranty should specifically state all track use (excluding racing) will be warrantied to restore customer and subsequent buyer confidence as standard warranty is very grey with track claims (basically no despite what they may elude). If they've done their homework, it shouldn't cost them much at all... Same goes for point 3, if there are no more f'ups, no cars will be returned in any case-zero cost but the message to future buyers will significantly assist resale values for you all...
There should be a real cost to them for point 2 and it should be paid in cash unless the customer prefers accessories or services. A fixed component of say US$2500 plus additionally $500 for every month your car is off the road or delayed as a direct consequence of this recall. Double that for you and us Macca as we pay way more and the compensation as a % of the purchase price worldwide should be roughly equal!
03-19-2014, 05:53 AM
#20
To answer Macca' question, Option 1 alone wouldn't be good enough. And I couldn't care less about PDDS items...
If I wasn't planning on selling my car, but keep it for a year or 2, I'd demand:
- 2 or more years extended warranty (on the entire car, not just the engine, including track-usage)
- some sort of guaranteed buy-back in 2 years time (to counter possible short-term excessive depreciation of 2014 GT3s)
- a fully paid Camp4S or similar to build my brand loyalty back up
- swap the Panamera S loaner for a 991 S or better
- cash compensation for incurred cost during the stop drive.
At the end of the day, the basic business rule for properly handling incidents like this is that your customer should end up more satisfied after being exposed to this as compared to if nothing would have happened, based on how the issue was handled and the compensation provided. The same applies in a restaurant: if your dish is poorly prepared but they acknowledge the issue, take it back instantly, prepare you a new one and offer you free coffee, you'll come back. Because everybody can make a mistake, right? But if they only replace your dish after lots of debate and let you leave you with a feeling of embarrassment having to highlight their issues, you won't...
So Porsche, knowing that your communication so far hasn't excited any of your (future) owners, why don'y you blow us away with the compensation packages proposed. In cash rather than goodies, if the customer prefers that. Your pockets are deep enough for it, with 2.6B EUR profit last year!
Personally, since I already decided to sell the GT3 and keep the Speciale prior to this incident, I only want my cash back. And a cash compensation for incurred cost (insurance) during the stop drive. You'd think that's not too much to ask?
If I wasn't planning on selling my car, but keep it for a year or 2, I'd demand:
- 2 or more years extended warranty (on the entire car, not just the engine, including track-usage)
- some sort of guaranteed buy-back in 2 years time (to counter possible short-term excessive depreciation of 2014 GT3s)
- a fully paid Camp4S or similar to build my brand loyalty back up
- swap the Panamera S loaner for a 991 S or better
- cash compensation for incurred cost during the stop drive.
At the end of the day, the basic business rule for properly handling incidents like this is that your customer should end up more satisfied after being exposed to this as compared to if nothing would have happened, based on how the issue was handled and the compensation provided. The same applies in a restaurant: if your dish is poorly prepared but they acknowledge the issue, take it back instantly, prepare you a new one and offer you free coffee, you'll come back. Because everybody can make a mistake, right? But if they only replace your dish after lots of debate and let you leave you with a feeling of embarrassment having to highlight their issues, you won't...
So Porsche, knowing that your communication so far hasn't excited any of your (future) owners, why don'y you blow us away with the compensation packages proposed. In cash rather than goodies, if the customer prefers that. Your pockets are deep enough for it, with 2.6B EUR profit last year!
Personally, since I already decided to sell the GT3 and keep the Speciale prior to this incident, I only want my cash back. And a cash compensation for incurred cost (insurance) during the stop drive. You'd think that's not too much to ask?
Last edited by TomTom77; 03-19-2014 at 07:42 AM.
03-19-2014, 06:34 AM
#21
Intermediate
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You guys are really too nice. Been asked for a deposit requirement imperiously with 8 months delivery,
then 6 months delayed without any explain, then paid for a car cant drive, then going to replace your "engine" with several months extra waiting?
I asked them the compensation:
1. A loaner vehicle(must be Porsche current models) or a $200/day transport fee until 2014 GT3 fixed and returned, or reorder 2015 GT3 delivered.
2. At least 30% discount from MSRP refund to clients who accept engine replacement 2014 GT3.
3. $10K free option to clients who ordered 2014 GT3 and prefer to cancel it and reorder 2015 GT3.
4. $20K free option to 2014 GT3 current owners if they prefer to reorder 2015 GT3.
5. An official apologize letter post on Porsche website.
A engine replaced car is not a "new" car and you will feel the pain when reselling it.
Time is priceless, I doubt they already found "something" in early production in 2013 summer and it caused the first 4 months delay.
Face it, PAG.
then 6 months delayed without any explain, then paid for a car cant drive, then going to replace your "engine" with several months extra waiting?
I asked them the compensation:
1. A loaner vehicle(must be Porsche current models) or a $200/day transport fee until 2014 GT3 fixed and returned, or reorder 2015 GT3 delivered.
2. At least 30% discount from MSRP refund to clients who accept engine replacement 2014 GT3.
3. $10K free option to clients who ordered 2014 GT3 and prefer to cancel it and reorder 2015 GT3.
4. $20K free option to 2014 GT3 current owners if they prefer to reorder 2015 GT3.
5. An official apologize letter post on Porsche website.
A engine replaced car is not a "new" car and you will feel the pain when reselling it.
Time is priceless, I doubt they already found "something" in early production in 2013 summer and it caused the first 4 months delay.
Face it, PAG.
03-19-2014, 06:46 AM
#22
Intermediate
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BTW, I doubt Porsche wont treat "everyone" in the world with a same "compensation".
They wont call everyone and will do it "case by case" behind dealers.
I agree Macca's suggestion, its time to discuss our "requirements" now.
They wont call everyone and will do it "case by case" behind dealers.
I agree Macca's suggestion, its time to discuss our "requirements" now.
03-19-2014, 06:51 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Bakamon. I agree! Unfortunately I feel we may be too late. I believe Porsche have made that decision and its along the lines of what I have already suggested. Im interested to know what the US customers are offered, however I suspect it will be the same. I think there will be some disappointment. Hopefully PAG will read this board as there are some very fair suggestions here. TomTom puts it very nicely in his "reigniting customer satisfaction" PR 101 piece above. Very well put...
03-19-2014, 07:10 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
Bakamon, I too agree.. All a very fair reflection of what you guys deserve for the situation you've all been put through.
The reality is that this is going to cost them way more than the money made per GT3 BEFORE compensation and I'd dare say they'd rather have you hand the car back rather than offering 5 figure compensation packages... I'm sure in their minds they've done enough through loaner cars (huge depreciation losses for them) and new engines... Lets hope they are willing to meet you guys half way and actually offer more than suggested may be the case in the OPs original post which is grossly inadequate at best...
The reality is that this is going to cost them way more than the money made per GT3 BEFORE compensation and I'd dare say they'd rather have you hand the car back rather than offering 5 figure compensation packages... I'm sure in their minds they've done enough through loaner cars (huge depreciation losses for them) and new engines... Lets hope they are willing to meet you guys half way and actually offer more than suggested may be the case in the OPs original post which is grossly inadequate at best...
03-19-2014, 07:23 AM
#25
Intermediate
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Macca. I dont think PAG has rights to make decision to the 785 GT3s.
They can offer us suggestion but we can reject, we have rights to ask them to refund money in this case. I dont think PAG can find another 785 buyers who will take our replaced engine GT3s at MSRP.
It will be a $1.5 billion problem stock in PAG.
Try to discuss and make a requirement by us from here and now, everyone can translate it, print it or email it to your dealer.
We should make "decision" this time.
They can offer us suggestion but we can reject, we have rights to ask them to refund money in this case. I dont think PAG can find another 785 buyers who will take our replaced engine GT3s at MSRP.
It will be a $1.5 billion problem stock in PAG.
Try to discuss and make a requirement by us from here and now, everyone can translate it, print it or email it to your dealer.
We should make "decision" this time.
03-19-2014, 07:29 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
^^^^ 100% agree. If all say "no" then they may listen.
I think we agree. In simple terms:
1). Extended Warranty (2 years minimum)
2). Cash compensation (or by way of credit towards another model or accessories if wanted)
3). Protection of residuals 2-3 years.
Or full refund plus cover for out of pocket costs.
Feel free to develop more ideas...
I think we agree. In simple terms:
1). Extended Warranty (2 years minimum)
2). Cash compensation (or by way of credit towards another model or accessories if wanted)
3). Protection of residuals 2-3 years.
Or full refund plus cover for out of pocket costs.
Feel free to develop more ideas...
03-19-2014, 07:47 AM
#27
Nordschleife Master
A week in Germany (flight,hotel and a Porsche loaner for the duration of the stay),with a factory and Museum tour,could be an interesting proposition...I would think...
03-19-2014, 08:02 AM
#28
Hopelessly devoted...
I received a live call from Porsche yesterday w/ nothing new to add other than all the info all of your collective intel has already provided. (I haven't spent this much late night, online time in YEARS
)
I'm unfortunately one of the ones that took delivery in December in Cleveland and had it shipped directly to Sebring for PBOC Winterfest. There, the car broke down with Cam Sensor issues. Drove it to Suncoast in Sarasota in limp mode, had it fixed. Broke down again with Thermostat issues. Had it fixed. Flew back down for PCA 48 Hr at Sebring and ran ONCE in three days due to weather.
Had the car shipped from Sebring to Forgeline to have 19" wheels cut, race seats and harness installed, only to have it sitting indefinitely waiting for "heart transplant."
It is my hope Porsche will do the right thing for 785+ customers. It's not like Toyota's recall or what GM is going through now? However, the minimal amount of times I've driven this car has me absolutely screwed. It's the BEST car I've ever driven. It handles like no other. It's torque curve and sweetspot is indescribable. It is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo planted, it makes me think I'm a better driver than I really am.
The sound beats F1 AND, w/out a helmet you can actually listen to the radio and not have your teeth rattle around as you drive it on the street.
I just came back from VIR w/ a new Cayman S. Carbotech pads and Hoosiers. My times reflected I ran fairly close to what its physical capacity ought to be, but I felt no more tingle in my boots than driving at speed on the road w/ my GT3 delivering her back for pickup from Sebring to get it home.
Once this issue gets fixed. The GT3 will get the time and attention by what it does on track and all these posts will be a long distant memory.... imo, humbly saying.
)I'm unfortunately one of the ones that took delivery in December in Cleveland and had it shipped directly to Sebring for PBOC Winterfest. There, the car broke down with Cam Sensor issues. Drove it to Suncoast in Sarasota in limp mode, had it fixed. Broke down again with Thermostat issues. Had it fixed. Flew back down for PCA 48 Hr at Sebring and ran ONCE in three days due to weather.
Had the car shipped from Sebring to Forgeline to have 19" wheels cut, race seats and harness installed, only to have it sitting indefinitely waiting for "heart transplant."
It is my hope Porsche will do the right thing for 785+ customers. It's not like Toyota's recall or what GM is going through now? However, the minimal amount of times I've driven this car has me absolutely screwed. It's the BEST car I've ever driven. It handles like no other. It's torque curve and sweetspot is indescribable. It is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo planted, it makes me think I'm a better driver than I really am.
The sound beats F1 AND, w/out a helmet you can actually listen to the radio and not have your teeth rattle around as you drive it on the street.
I just came back from VIR w/ a new Cayman S. Carbotech pads and Hoosiers. My times reflected I ran fairly close to what its physical capacity ought to be, but I felt no more tingle in my boots than driving at speed on the road w/ my GT3 delivering her back for pickup from Sebring to get it home.
Once this issue gets fixed. The GT3 will get the time and attention by what it does on track and all these posts will be a long distant memory.... imo, humbly saying.
03-19-2014, 08:24 AM
#29
Advanced
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^^^ 100% agree. If all say "no" then they may listen.
I think we agree. In simple terms:
1). Extended Warranty (2 years minimum)
2). Cash compensation (or by way of credit towards another model or accessories if wanted)
3). Protection of residuals 2-3 years.
Or full refund plus cover for out of pocket costs.
Feel free to develop more ideas...
I think we agree. In simple terms:
1). Extended Warranty (2 years minimum)
2). Cash compensation (or by way of credit towards another model or accessories if wanted)
3). Protection of residuals 2-3 years.
Or full refund plus cover for out of pocket costs.
Feel free to develop more ideas...
03-19-2014, 09:12 AM
#30
I thought it was a 3 year warranty, but a 7 year free scheduled maintenance plan (at 12,500 mile intervals) for Ferraris starting with MY2012?
Regardless--yes, I would want an extended warranty to 6 years / 100k, covering track use, and preferably ms intense included for at least the original 4 year / 50k time frame.
Regardless--yes, I would want an extended warranty to 6 years / 100k, covering track use, and preferably ms intense included for at least the original 4 year / 50k time frame.