My GT3 Story
03-10-2014, 03:20 PM
#1
My GT3 Story
Since there is a little lull in the action while everyone awaits the disposition of the Stop Sale matter, I thought it might be a good time to tell my GT3 story. Those of you with good memories may recall that I posted a picture of my new GT3, in my driveway, on Thursday, December 19. I believe that it was the first car in a retail customer's possession in the U.S. https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...us-soil-7.htmlpost #99. Subsequently, I posted a couple of times about the car but suddenly stopped talking about it. Surprisingly, no one called me on that inconsistency but here's the reason:
Shortly after I started driving the car, I noticed a squealing/groaning noise when I turned the steering wheel at rest or at slow speed. It sounded a little like brake rotor noise. I took the car to the dealer on Saturday and they took a quick look and advised that it didn't appear that anything would be hurt if I drove it through the weekend to see if whatever was causing the noise resolved. It didn't get better, but actually got a little worse so I dropped the car off on Monday so they could investigate thoroughly. They got right on it but advised later in the day that they would need to talk with the techs in Germany who were all gone until after the Christmas holiday. By Friday, they had consulted with Germany and the PCNA regional guy and determined that the electro-mechanical steering mechanism needed to be replaced. Before I could get depressed about waiting for a part from Germany, they said there was one in Atlanta that they could get overnighted and install it on Saturday. They did so, but had trouble coding the new part into the system. Evidently, they needed to code all four wheels and couldn't get all of the faults to clear. This problem persisted all day Monday and I finally lost patience, primarily for two reasons. First, the new car experience was ruined. I could hardly show anyone the car in the four days I had as it would make this horrible noise when I turned the wheel. I could just see them laughing about the guy with the cool new $140,000 car that sounded like a garbage truck. Then, I didn't have the car for an entire week. The second reason was that if I had one concern about the new GT3, it was the RWS. Having a steering problem right out of the box made me very nervous.
On Monday night, I told the Service Manager (who, incidentally, did a great job of staying on top of the situation and communicating with me at every step) that I didn't want the car. Within the hour, the Sales Manager called and said they would do whatever would make me happy. I said I would be happy with my trade-in (991S) back and he said fine, come get it. They returned my car that they had prepped for resale with new tires, annual service, immaculate detailing, and a full tank of gas, in addition, obviously, to all my money.
They were able to complete the repair the next day and were able to sell the GT3 to another customer who, I believe, is very happy with the car. I give very high marks to the dealer, Brumos, who I do not fault in the least for the difficulty of the situation. Clearly, their after sale resolution of the problem went well beyond what a customer should expect.
I never posted this story as I didn't want to start a sh*t storm about a steering problem in the new car. I thought there would be other people having they same problem and I was going to leave it to them to post about it. Amazingly, I have heard about no other occurrences. As for the sh*t storm, the Stop Sale is a Category 5 and makes my issue pale by comparison.
Further, I guess I thought that people would think me a fool over turning in such a great car over what turned out to be a minor issue. At times, I think maybe I am. On the other hand, that Cat 5 storm out there...
p.s. please don't ask for details about the repair. I don't understand the steering mechanism and don't know the electronics involved. I am only relating what I was told.
Shortly after I started driving the car, I noticed a squealing/groaning noise when I turned the steering wheel at rest or at slow speed. It sounded a little like brake rotor noise. I took the car to the dealer on Saturday and they took a quick look and advised that it didn't appear that anything would be hurt if I drove it through the weekend to see if whatever was causing the noise resolved. It didn't get better, but actually got a little worse so I dropped the car off on Monday so they could investigate thoroughly. They got right on it but advised later in the day that they would need to talk with the techs in Germany who were all gone until after the Christmas holiday. By Friday, they had consulted with Germany and the PCNA regional guy and determined that the electro-mechanical steering mechanism needed to be replaced. Before I could get depressed about waiting for a part from Germany, they said there was one in Atlanta that they could get overnighted and install it on Saturday. They did so, but had trouble coding the new part into the system. Evidently, they needed to code all four wheels and couldn't get all of the faults to clear. This problem persisted all day Monday and I finally lost patience, primarily for two reasons. First, the new car experience was ruined. I could hardly show anyone the car in the four days I had as it would make this horrible noise when I turned the wheel. I could just see them laughing about the guy with the cool new $140,000 car that sounded like a garbage truck. Then, I didn't have the car for an entire week. The second reason was that if I had one concern about the new GT3, it was the RWS. Having a steering problem right out of the box made me very nervous.
On Monday night, I told the Service Manager (who, incidentally, did a great job of staying on top of the situation and communicating with me at every step) that I didn't want the car. Within the hour, the Sales Manager called and said they would do whatever would make me happy. I said I would be happy with my trade-in (991S) back and he said fine, come get it. They returned my car that they had prepped for resale with new tires, annual service, immaculate detailing, and a full tank of gas, in addition, obviously, to all my money.
They were able to complete the repair the next day and were able to sell the GT3 to another customer who, I believe, is very happy with the car. I give very high marks to the dealer, Brumos, who I do not fault in the least for the difficulty of the situation. Clearly, their after sale resolution of the problem went well beyond what a customer should expect.
I never posted this story as I didn't want to start a sh*t storm about a steering problem in the new car. I thought there would be other people having they same problem and I was going to leave it to them to post about it. Amazingly, I have heard about no other occurrences. As for the sh*t storm, the Stop Sale is a Category 5 and makes my issue pale by comparison.
Further, I guess I thought that people would think me a fool over turning in such a great car over what turned out to be a minor issue. At times, I think maybe I am. On the other hand, that Cat 5 storm out there...
p.s. please don't ask for details about the repair. I don't understand the steering mechanism and don't know the electronics involved. I am only relating what I was told.
03-10-2014, 03:45 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Just curious...did you spec, order and wait for the GT3?
Thank you for sharing the story and issue.
03-10-2014, 03:53 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Not surprising that they offered to take the car back, as they could flip it for over MSRP before the 'stop sale'. Somehow I doubt they would be so generous if it had been a lesser model...
03-10-2014, 04:10 PM
#7
Sadly, this. The GT3 is a first year car with tons of new tech. Things are bound to go wrong, and you just have to accept that (car burning to ground excepted). If you are satisfied with your 991S though, then you already have the right car!
Just curious...did you spec, order and wait for the GT3?
Thank you for sharing the story and issue.
Just curious...did you spec, order and wait for the GT3?
Thank you for sharing the story and issue.
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03-10-2014, 04:10 PM
#8
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Kudos to Brumos. They legally didn't have to do that, and you know many (most?) dealers would not have done that.
Perhaps somebody with access to the parts catalogue can verify that the electro mechanical steering setup is identical to the Carrera setup, as statements by porsche indicate that they are mechanically identical and that only the software varies b/t the cars.
If so, what failed is a standard part that's been around for a while.
But the coding issue has to be partly due to the complications of RWS as the brain has to have all 4 wheels calibrated for RWS to work properly.
--------------------------
Personally I would not have dumped the new metal over that, but combined with the stop sale, you made the right decision (for you, not in general). So at least now you don't have to beat yourself up on the issue.
Perhaps somebody with access to the parts catalogue can verify that the electro mechanical steering setup is identical to the Carrera setup, as statements by porsche indicate that they are mechanically identical and that only the software varies b/t the cars.
If so, what failed is a standard part that's been around for a while.
But the coding issue has to be partly due to the complications of RWS as the brain has to have all 4 wheels calibrated for RWS to work properly.
--------------------------
Personally I would not have dumped the new metal over that, but combined with the stop sale, you made the right decision (for you, not in general). So at least now you don't have to beat yourself up on the issue.
03-10-2014, 04:11 PM
#9
03-10-2014, 04:16 PM
#10
Kudos to Brumos. They legally didn't have to do that, and you know many (most?) dealers would not have done that.
Perhaps somebody with access to the parts catalogue can verify that the electro mechanical steering setup is identical to the Carrera setup, as statements by porsche indicate that they are mechanically identical and that only the software varies b/t the cars.
If so, what failed is a standard part that's been around for a while.
But the coding issue has to be partly due to the complications of RWS as the brain has to have all 4 wheels calibrated for RWS to work properly.
--------------------------
Personally I would not have dumped the new metal over that, but combined with the stop sale, you made the right decision (for you, not in general). So at least now you don't have to beat yourself up on the issue.
Perhaps somebody with access to the parts catalogue can verify that the electro mechanical steering setup is identical to the Carrera setup, as statements by porsche indicate that they are mechanically identical and that only the software varies b/t the cars.
If so, what failed is a standard part that's been around for a while.
But the coding issue has to be partly due to the complications of RWS as the brain has to have all 4 wheels calibrated for RWS to work properly.
--------------------------
Personally I would not have dumped the new metal over that, but combined with the stop sale, you made the right decision (for you, not in general). So at least now you don't have to beat yourself up on the issue.
03-10-2014, 06:14 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
We mentioned our order for a GT3 and that discussion led to the 918 and other cars David had recently tested. Eventually the conversation wondered onto electric power steering.
David was adamant that the journalists are aboslutely full of s**t with respect to electric power steering. That many professional level race cars have used electric power steering for years. He went so far to say that they were doing some testing with Ford and one of the consultant technicians loaded a different firmware for the steering system and asked that a couple of the drivers give their impressions. David stated that the firmware made the steering feel completely different - the technician admitted that the loaded the algorithm from another manufacturer ... David guessed BMW but the tech wouldn't say.
His basic assertion was that electric power steering is plenty good and that manufacturers each put their own "personality" on it. Also that any journalist stating that hyraulic steering gives you feel like a real race car is sadly disconnected with a large portion of modern pro-racing technology.
Ryan
03-10-2014, 06:25 PM
#12
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@tmg, well sort of. Engineer first but then got the bright idea to go to law school. I'm not sure how bright it was b/c practicing law is like doing homework. Every day 10 hours a day.
@ryan, makes sense and interesting points. Electric is lighter and there's no hydraulics to mess with, and less parasitic drain. I think one of the reasons modern cars use electric cooling fans: less drain. There are hydraulic systems that feel like ****, and electric systems will evolve and surpass the best of the oil-pumpers. After all, there's still a mechanical connection (unlike your gas pedal which has no mechanical connection), the difference is how the assist is applied. We've had the benefit of PAG building some of the best hydraulic systems in a sports car today, I'm confident we'll continue to see better and better e systems.
I don't recall how many people bitched and moaned about the 997 GT3 steering relative to the 996. But both of these are hydraulic yet the 996 wheel is FAR more alive.
@ryan, makes sense and interesting points. Electric is lighter and there's no hydraulics to mess with, and less parasitic drain. I think one of the reasons modern cars use electric cooling fans: less drain. There are hydraulic systems that feel like ****, and electric systems will evolve and surpass the best of the oil-pumpers. After all, there's still a mechanical connection (unlike your gas pedal which has no mechanical connection), the difference is how the assist is applied. We've had the benefit of PAG building some of the best hydraulic systems in a sports car today, I'm confident we'll continue to see better and better e systems.
I don't recall how many people bitched and moaned about the 997 GT3 steering relative to the 996. But both of these are hydraulic yet the 996 wheel is FAR more alive.
03-11-2014, 05:27 AM
#13
1st Gear
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They introduced the electromagnetic steering mainly because of the (stupid) EU energy saving regulations. Not sure if the planet benefits in any way from vehicles being equipped with e/m steering, though. Whatever. There is a rumour here in Germany that says the stop sale / stop drive action has sth to do with the steering, not the engine....
03-11-2014, 10:08 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
All NSX's from 1995 on had EPS (exception on 50 Zanardi special light weight cars). Was considered one of the best handling cars on the planet 'til Honda pulled the plug in 2005.
03-11-2014, 04:11 PM
#15
GT3 player par excellence
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^ BS....
i say shut up and dont drive up that mkt. i want one of those 50 zanardi cars.......
look for 6 years. nada.....
now i have to drive stupid porsches...
i say shut up and dont drive up that mkt. i want one of those 50 zanardi cars.......
look for 6 years. nada.....
now i have to drive stupid porsches...