csmarx

You make an interesting point. I purposefully didn't address depreciation but rather cost of capital. I think these are entirely seprate issues, and I think depreciation is pretty much impossible to predict. It might be a little, it might be a lot, it might be more or less for 2014 vs. 2015. For all we know PAG might decide the next GT3 to be all electrical or no more GT3 at all, in which case this car could actually appreciate or even skyrocket like the 4.0.

If I follow your argument you are essentially saying, I'm receiving my car 4 months later, therefore it has depreciated by 4 months.

But...

I'm pretty sure that if you tried to sell the car immidiately upon delivery, despite sitting on a lot for a couple of months, you'd be able to sell it as a new car and not as a 4 months old used car. I think the depreciation is tied primarily to registration and miles on the clock. I also don't think it's not unequivocal or even likely that if you tried to sell the car two years from now, it would make any difference in price what-so-ever if you tried to sell it in April or 4 months later in August. In other words there is no scheduled depreciation that PAG could use as a reference for compensation. But I do think the additional 1 year warranty not only gives peace of mind, but also helps greatly mitigate any possible "added" depreciation.

Now, "loss of use" is somewhat different. The economic part of loss of use is easy if you've paid for the car, since it can be calculated by the cost of owning the car while parked. If you had a sizeable deposit, the cost of that capital can also be calculated. But I think you are also referring to the emotional (and possibly practical) loss of not enjoying your car for several of the summer months. This is highly subjective and varies greatly from one individual to another. Macca's car seems like it would be parked anyway until they do their next trip to NZ, so loss of use is nearly zero. Others were looking forward to daily driving, road trips and even a full season of track days. For some this loss of use has a great emotional cost, but even so it depends on your personal emotional makeup and alternative resources. For some they will just shrug and use another car, and for others they feel their summer is literally ruined.

How could PAG be expected to compensate for this on a blanket basis? No matter how much they (reasonably) paid for this, there would be folks out there for whom that is not enough. And frankly, a string of bad weather could cause the same amount of grief! I once had a summer in the mid-atlantic region where it rained like clockwork every weekend. I think it came out to 10 of 12 rainy weekends. But I digress....

Basically this is where individual nogotiation with your dealer/representative comes in as I alluded to in my post. If you can document trip plans, track day plans, etc. etc., and if you are upset enough about this, probably you can get something from them. If not, you can vote with your dollars with your next purchase or even for this purchase if you haven't taken delivery yet.

In short, I think the issue you are referring to is partly taken care of by compensation for cost of capital (including deposit), and parly by the extended warranty. Any further compensation for emotional/practical loss, would have to be individually negotiated locally and couldn't possibly be part of any blanket PAG compensation plan.

IMHO,
-Christian

MAKHNO

So my strange story unfolds.
Today I went to my dealer discussing why I had to buy a Boxster why I couldn't just return the GT3.
So he said OK, you don't have to buy a Boxster, but he put the order in Monday two days ago and today it is locked, so he can't get rid of it.
He says he called PAG and got a special allocation due to the situation and that it would be built in late May arriving in mid June.
So I think this is bull that a car ordered Monday is already so far in the system at PAG that it can't be cancelled.
He even said he would accept another build later in the year as replacement for this special priority build.
So if anyone has any contacts at PAG, who could cancel a two day old order, dinner at Noma is on me.

TRAKCAR

Crazy, here in the US you can cancel a car any time for any reason!
I think the dealer is taking you for a ride!

SamFromTX

I agree with TRAKAR. Here, you can spec a car, order it, have it arrive at the dealership and then not take it. They won't like it but they can't force you or forfeit your deposit.
Your best contact at PAG is you. I would let the delaership know you want out of the car or you will complain to PAG, via letter, about "PAG's absurd stand on cancelling your order". I bet that would make them re-consider.

mhh

That's pretty much identical to the letter I got in Australia 12 hours ago - except my letter said engine builds would start "after Easter". And no mention of compensation...

Dude-

Hi Christian, the "lose of use" term is some what misleading. In that term which is where the compensation is lumped into has many factors. Porsche will not have two separate categories so lets break it down a bit.

1. Depreciation in a model year before the 2015 arrives. Both groups suffer the same rate because it is a time remaining for the next model is to appear and both groups can't use their cars.

2. Real loss of use. For me, I suffer the same" lost of use" because I can't use it from day one. If my car was delivered 24hrs before the stop sale, even though I have it in my possession, does it change my "lose of use"? no. Again, same rate of loss between both groups.

3. Financial hardship- If you paid for it but can't use it, I think porsche will lump it into the real loss of use #2.

4. Resale right after engine swap- why? just return the car.

Both owners suffer the same rate as both groups can't use their cars. The folks who have later delivery dates are affected less therefore the effective date of the compensation is pushed out in accordance to their respective delivery dates.

So my question is, If I took delivery of my car for 1 day earlier and got "stop sale" will my compensation differ from the next guy who got stopped the following day and stuck at port USA. My personal opinion is no. We both got screwed.

sgroer

Now that I am an outsider I am less emotional. The craziest thing to me is the mechanics regarding the warranty extension. delivered cars will have eaten 30%-50% of the warranty extension due to loss of use. Undelivered cars get a full one year extension. That makes zero sense to me. Should be one year plus down time for delivered cars.

SamFromTX

I wonder if the US legal team read Rennlist and delayed the letter to fix this.

jlee504

nevermind got it

Claudef2

Not sure about the rest of the world; here is California the situation is pretty clear: under the Lemon Laws, all the GT3 that have been delivered can be declared lemons at any time now that 30 days have passed. Porsche would have to reimburse the cost of the car, registration, sales taxes, etc. pro-rated for mileage as follows: (miles driven)/120,000 * Total Costs. My dealer is keenly aware of this potential liability. A few years back he had a customer return a Carrera GT (ouch). The lemon period is good for 24 months.

So I see three options:
1. Hang loose and wait patiently until the replacement engine arrives.
2. Call the dealer tomorrow and ask for my money back.
3. Wait 23 months, drive the car (presuming the engine arrives), then call the dealer and return the car.

I have not made up my mind yet. What I do know is that the GT3 has accumulated a fine layer of dust sitting in my garage for 5 weeks. At first I went to look at it daily, but not anymore. Whatever lust and desire I may have had is long gone. Another information-free email from PCNA and I might just experience revulsion and the need to vomit uncontrollably.

After 15 years of devotion to the brand this might well be my last Porsche.

sk0t

I agree, the wording of the AU letter is almost identical to the US letter (which is a little different to the UK letter) but mine doesn't say:
So I'm wondering if yours does? My car is still at the dealer in storage, whereas I know you have yours - perhaps the wording is a bit different between delivered and undelivered cars. I'm not too concerned either way, I've only paid a AU$5k deposit and the remaining ~AU$330k is still sitting in a bank account earning at least some interest, plus I have other cars I can drive.

This is my first GT3, heck it's my first Porsche, but I'm not giving up. I will take delivery of this car and I will enjoy the heck out of it

Scott.
-------
2014 991 GT3 - in Adelaide, waiting for new engine; seen, touched, and sat in!
2007 Audi RS4
1999 Subaru Impreza WRX STi

mqandil

LOL.....I was sworn to secrecy.

But WA is more exciting than you guys imagine. Move up here and you will be included in the inner circle.

Or perhaps I dreamt about this letter and it was never true, and just a figment of my imagination!

soon enough the truth will come out. Time will tell if it was a dream or just the plivirage in living in WA State. Mark

MaxLTV

Nope, just got the letter from Tim, and it does not make sense to me. Someone with undelivered car will get 5 years of warranty, and someone who already got the car and planned to rely on it is getting only 4.6 years of an effective warranty, in addition to higher depreciation and other costs!

Mike in CA

^^ Yup, just got my copy as well. It's the exact letter Mark (mqandil) told us about earlier. Hopefully the compensation mentioned in the letter will help mitigate the difference between those who have already had their warranty clock start, and those who haven't.

Nick

You might want to verify that with an attorney who specializes in Lemon Law. As I understand the law, after 30 days it is presumed a lemon and you are entitled to all cost back including purchase price. However, the presumption is a rebuttable one which means the manufacturer can go before an arbitrator and claim he has not had a chance to fix the car. The arbitrator can rule either way.

Whether Porsche would opt to do this is uncertain. I suspect they would just ale the car back.