After reading what happened to Paul Walker
12-11-2013, 01:51 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
After reading what happened to Paul Walker
and the fact he more than likely died from sudden deceleration I am considering a HANS device for the track. Can the device be used with US factory bucket seats? I believe you need a 5 or 6 point harness which to my knowledge are not provided. Any information about this?
BTW, here is a good description of what happens to the human body when there is sudden and violent deceleration. Not pretty.
Got this from another car site.
your second question is one of the few in this thread to which I can provide an well-informed answer to. several specific types of injury which can occur in a high speed deceleration, as was the case in this instance:
-with regards to the nervous system, often seen in high speed MVC is diffuse axonal injury in which aside from any discrete neurological injury (i.e. fractures, hematomas) the entire neural network in the brain displays changes in the connections and connectivity within neurons. if you imagine your brain as a network of christmas lights, this is akin to cutting the light cord at numerous locations and turning the lights out. this is manifest as a coma beginning at the point of impact, and may persist indefinitely in severe cases. in more mild impacts, patients can have transient loss of consciousness which is your common concussion and a separate process from DAI.
-another commonly seen nervous system injury in high speed MVC are spine fractures, most concerning at the junction between the skull and the spine or between the C1/2 vertebrae. this area is particularly susceptible to injury during high speed deceleration because the head is really quite heavy and can be thought of as a bowling ball on top of a slinky (although the spine and its ligaments are more resilient than a slinky). all that weight being flung forward in a rapid deceleration can shear the ligaments which hold your head to your spine and result in what is sometimes (dramatically) termed an "internal decapitation". if the brainstem/spine is severely damaged as a result of an unstable spine fracture at a high level (skull C1, C1/C2), you can die immediately from injury to your brainstem which contains the centers which control your breathing, moderate heartrate, and ultimately control wakefulness.
-outside of the nervous system, a tear in any large vascular structure as a result of rapid decelaration can result in internal bleeding which could kill you within minutes. this is most common where the aorta is tethered by a ligament in the chest. when you stop rapidly the aorta may fling forward until it's abruptly stopped by this ligamentous attachment, which can then rip off the wall of the aorta, tearing a hole in it. death comes quickly as the heart pumps its output into the thoracic cavity rather than your vital organs.
in short, there are a number of ways in which a rapid deceleration can seriously hurt or kill you. with the advent of modern seatblets, most of the body is well restrained leading to far fewer blunt force thoracic injuries. however, the head remains unrestrained on top of the neck and neurological injuries are still very common and often the most serious injury in restrained drivers in very high speed motor vehicle collisions. this has been addressed in the various racing series via regulations mandating HANS restraints, notably after the death of dale earnhardt from a basilar skull/spine fracture.
given that both drivers were unconscious, it is fair to say that they suffered some degree of neurological injury in the accident. this is a very sad story and a reminder that high speeds in the absence of a helmet and a head and neck restraint system is exceedingly dangerous, regardless of the car or other safety equipment.
BTW, here is a good description of what happens to the human body when there is sudden and violent deceleration. Not pretty.
Got this from another car site.your second question is one of the few in this thread to which I can provide an well-informed answer to. several specific types of injury which can occur in a high speed deceleration, as was the case in this instance:
-with regards to the nervous system, often seen in high speed MVC is diffuse axonal injury in which aside from any discrete neurological injury (i.e. fractures, hematomas) the entire neural network in the brain displays changes in the connections and connectivity within neurons. if you imagine your brain as a network of christmas lights, this is akin to cutting the light cord at numerous locations and turning the lights out. this is manifest as a coma beginning at the point of impact, and may persist indefinitely in severe cases. in more mild impacts, patients can have transient loss of consciousness which is your common concussion and a separate process from DAI.
-another commonly seen nervous system injury in high speed MVC are spine fractures, most concerning at the junction between the skull and the spine or between the C1/2 vertebrae. this area is particularly susceptible to injury during high speed deceleration because the head is really quite heavy and can be thought of as a bowling ball on top of a slinky (although the spine and its ligaments are more resilient than a slinky). all that weight being flung forward in a rapid deceleration can shear the ligaments which hold your head to your spine and result in what is sometimes (dramatically) termed an "internal decapitation". if the brainstem/spine is severely damaged as a result of an unstable spine fracture at a high level (skull C1, C1/C2), you can die immediately from injury to your brainstem which contains the centers which control your breathing, moderate heartrate, and ultimately control wakefulness.
-outside of the nervous system, a tear in any large vascular structure as a result of rapid decelaration can result in internal bleeding which could kill you within minutes. this is most common where the aorta is tethered by a ligament in the chest. when you stop rapidly the aorta may fling forward until it's abruptly stopped by this ligamentous attachment, which can then rip off the wall of the aorta, tearing a hole in it. death comes quickly as the heart pumps its output into the thoracic cavity rather than your vital organs.
in short, there are a number of ways in which a rapid deceleration can seriously hurt or kill you. with the advent of modern seatblets, most of the body is well restrained leading to far fewer blunt force thoracic injuries. however, the head remains unrestrained on top of the neck and neurological injuries are still very common and often the most serious injury in restrained drivers in very high speed motor vehicle collisions. this has been addressed in the various racing series via regulations mandating HANS restraints, notably after the death of dale earnhardt from a basilar skull/spine fracture.
given that both drivers were unconscious, it is fair to say that they suffered some degree of neurological injury in the accident. this is a very sad story and a reminder that high speeds in the absence of a helmet and a head and neck restraint system is exceedingly dangerous, regardless of the car or other safety equipment.
12-11-2013, 01:53 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Hey Nick, let's grab a coffee sometime and I can show you mine, walk you through how it works, etc.
There is no question or hesitation...you want a HANS device for the track.
It will work fine with sport buckets (when they are released) and requires shoulder straps, so 4-6 point harness.
There is no question or hesitation...you want a HANS device for the track.
It will work fine with sport buckets (when they are released) and requires shoulder straps, so 4-6 point harness.
12-11-2013, 04:20 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West Vancouver and San Francisco
Posts: 4,186
Received 1,150 Likes
on
568 Posts
Without harness, you can use Safety Solutions Hybrid Pro or R3. I'm not an expert in protective gear, so other on this forum or in track driving section of the forum may be able to better direct you. But I know many who instruct use those devices because you can't ensure that student cars have appropriate harnesses for HANS.
12-11-2013, 06:29 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
(don't ask how I know this )
With a Hans you need 5pt or 6pt harness and roll cage…. so if the car flips the roof does not collapse on your head which cannot deflect because of it's fixed position from harness and hans.
You do have increased protection from sudden deceleration with this set up
I have seen some testing showing in a forward crash the Helmet and head weight
is more than 900 lbs ( that tis applied to your neck )
Elliot
Trending Topics
12-11-2013, 06:38 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
12-11-2013, 06:42 PM
#11
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicagoland Area
Posts: 26,142
Likes: 0
Received 5,388 Likes
on
2,509 Posts
12-11-2013, 06:48 PM
#13
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I question the need for a HANS device in a car equipped with airbags. Without airbags or for serious track you need harness, roll bar, containment seat and a net on the right side of the containment (Halo) seat since a crash on the passenger side can still break your neck. The HANS is a straight in or up to 30 degree offset protection device. Lose it and hit hard on the passenger side and you're in trouble without a Halo seat and side net.
12-11-2013, 07:10 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I question the need for a HANS device in a car equipped with airbags. Without airbags or for serious track you need harness, roll bar, containment seat and a net on the right side of the containment (Halo) seat since a crash on the passenger side can still break your neck. The HANS is a straight in or up to 30 degree offset protection device. Lose it and hit hard on the passenger side and you're in trouble without a Halo seat and side net.
