Originally Posted by kosmo

Profit margin.

Ohlins are da bomb. Had em on my bike

Originally Posted by tmg57

Understood and agreed. Problem is, time marches on, games change, the rules change. To me, golf is a good analogy. I don't know if you play (I don't anymore) but if you did play in the wooden driver era you will remember the satisfaction of hitting a perfect shot with a well made persimmon driver - the feel, the sound, the appreciation of the ball flight. It was hard to do, and few players could hit those shots often. Then came the oversized titanium clubs that changed the game. Suddenly, high handicappers could outdrive scratch players. It was easier, but the feel and the sound weren't there although the result was better. Today, everyone uses the new style clubs - compared to the days of yore, the bad players are better and the pros are awesome. The competition remains the same, however, because relative to the other players, no one has gained an advantage.

I suspect that today's automobile traditionalists will hang on for some period of time, but will eventually tire of being lapped by snot nosed kids driving techno-machines. Then again, maybe vintage racing will replace NASCAR...

Originally Posted by GrantG

I found more detailed specs (and it does sound like it will be a big price jump):

The first official images and details about the Nissan GT-R Nismo have hit the web, prior to the car's full reveal set for tomorrow.

The Nismo-tuned GT-R makes use of an uprated twin-turbo V6 3.8-liter engine which now develops 595 HP (438 kW) and 480 lb-ft (650 Nm), up from the previous 545 HP (401 kW) and 463 lb-ft (627 Nm) of torque. The increased output was possible after revising the intake and exhaust systems, as well as by installing bigger turbochargers derived from the GT3-spec model and modifying the ignition timing. Nissan mentions it would have been possible to squeeze additional power from the engine but at the risk of damaging the gearbox.

The Nissan GT-R Nismo sits on 20-inch alloy wheels wrapped around in 255/40RF-20 run-flat Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT 600 DSST tires which provide more grip than before. The vehicle will be available with an optional track package which was capable of lapping the Nürburgring in 7:08.69 at the end of September when it was driven by Michael Krumm, an ex FIA GT1 champion.

This optional kit will encompass several carbon fiber body parts, along with a front splitter and a massive rear spoiler. Those carbon fiber bits and pieces will shave off a significant 143 lbs (64.8 kg) from the car's curb weight. In addition, the package will also encompass various chassis tweaks, manually-adjustable Öhlins shocks and different springs with a lighter rate.

Pricing details have not been disclosed but Nissan mentions the GT-R Nismo with the optional track package will cost less than 200,000 USD (about 148,000 EUR / 124,000 GBP).

Check back tomorrow for more official photos and full details.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11311186...-708-ring-time

I remember when the GT-R was debuted with a price of $69k...

I'll be shocked if the price is really close to $200k - it will be announced tomorrow...

Originally Posted by neanicu

There's no doubt that because manufacturers are pushed(and obsessed I might add) to keep up with competition's lap times,it is a matter of time until the GT3 and Turbo won't feel any different than a GTR. So the argument that the GTR does all the work for you will be just as true in Porsche's case.
So what will Porsche have on the table to justify the price difference ? The name,heritage,iconic design and rear engine layout.

Originally Posted by wanna911

I don't think that's a great analogy, I would consider newer clubs like moving to a dog box, or mechanical single clutch sequential without the auto blips and such. With a golf swing, YOU still have to swing the club, aim, follow through. In fact, you have to do everything you had to do with the old clubs, they just make the end result better by improving the ability of the user, not taking over for him/her.

PDk would be the equivalent of lining a machine up to do it and hitting a button for it to swing for you. Same strength and swing every time, now it just comes down to aiming the robot. Sounds eerie similar.

I think most traditionalist, as probably now, would relish in the satisfaction of seeing the snot nosed kid actually drive a car that takes some skill to pilot. Some DE organizations are now allowing techno car owner checkrides, but in that car only. If you show up in a car that requires real driving, you have to check ride over again.

Originally Posted by frayed

All semantics wanna.

The robot switches the gears in the new car, but you still have to drive the car. Just like you have to swing the club. There's still a steering wheel, brake pedal and gas pedal that needs to be worked and mastered to go fast.

Those big new drivers make the game accessible for common folk. The old drivers almost impossible to use for many.

Hmmmm. Sounds Eerily similar.

Originally Posted by wanna911

No, it's not. The essence of golf has not changed. The club does not assist you by removing responsibilities. You still have to complete every single action you had to complete before. The same is not true for PDK.

Originally Posted by ShakeNBake

Might as well get a google car.

Originally Posted by Mike in CA

Yeah, cause it's exactly the same thing......

You can't split hairs about the golf club analogy and then go all hyperbolic with a statement like that in the very same post.

Originally Posted by wanna911

No, it's not. The essence of golf has not changed. The club does not assist you by removing responsibilities. You still have to complete every single action you had to complete before. The same is not true for PDK.

Originally Posted by frayed

Remind me again why you are here since you dislike the new car so much?

We can argue bull**** analogies all day long but contribute nothing to these threads.

We've already done this.

Originally Posted by frayed

My pedometer says I haven't burned a tic tac here today nor did I get any ad dollars.