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EVO Magazine awards 991 GT3 its coveted Car of the Year Award (eCOTY)

 
Old 11-06-2013, 08:32 AM
  #31  
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Pete. I share your view but "progress" has historically led to each generation of car being faster and more accomplished than the one that proceeded it. I think its human nature to want to go faster. Afterall why else would you put a GT3 cup engine in a long hood 911? I think the final windy road drive did it for me as these are they types of road I drive frequently in NZ. That chassis, transmission & engine melding cohesively into a single telepathically scintillating drive is I think how they sum it up. Meadens had it in for the 991 GT3 since it was announced it would be tiptronic - before he even drove the car, and it was reiterated in the Evo Aug/Sept edition. Catchpole and Jethro kept a more open mind to it during those various tests. The fact it won over David Vivian (hard to please) and even got Meaden to vote it second place (choosing the SLS perhaps demonstrating he was never going to choose it as outright winner) as actually quite impressive. The fact that this eCoty did not involve any track work further strengthens the win for the 991 GT3 - I believe the crew went in not really wanting the 991 GT3 to win in 2013 as the ellude but finding that against all odds and strong competition, as a driving car on driving roads its still had a strong enough hand to win. The fact it did so cleanly in points is a surprise. I think throwing some track work in would only have increased the lead....however as you say this path that consumers have encouraged car producers to follow is an endless and potentially fruitless one. The 991 GT3 successor in 6 years time will likely be hybrid and faster still, but we dont really need it. As you know eventually power corrupts and compromises a sweet spot in packaging....
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:01 AM
  #32  
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I think that track or closed course competition cars can continue to get faster; improving technology can allow the total package can remain balanced and fun with additional speed up the the limits of the driver's reflexes and endurance (see F1, and the fact that it's being consistently "slowed down" to not exceed these). My long hood is such a competition car on a much lesser scale, and as you say it's human to strive to exceed.

However road speed limits are not increasing. In the early 70s you could use all of a '73 RS on the road in the US in many places for more than 10 seconds before risking a ticket. On the autobahn you could use it all until the gas ran out. Since that time, however, cars have gotten exponentially faster while US speed limits have actually come down. I mention the Veyron (and P1, etc) because history has shown that today's supercar speeds are tomorrow's sports car speeds. And I simply can't imagine enjoying the performance of a Veyron regularly on the road. Three seconds and you're done on public roads- that's a party trick, not a driving experience. It seems the focus must soon shift away from numbers: we are proving that we can hit numbers that are simply take away from the experience of driving on the street, rather than adding to it.

A story we've heard before, perhaps, but this piece and this car made me ask the question again- how close to the line are we?
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Petevb View Post
However road speed limits are not increasing. In the early 70s you could use all of a '73 RS on the road in the US in many places for more than 10 seconds before risking a ticket. On the autobahn you could use it all until the gas ran out. Since that time, however, cars have gotten exponentially faster while US speed limits have actually come down. I mention the Veyron (and P1, etc) because history has shown that today's supercar speeds are tomorrow's sports car speeds. And I simply can't imagine enjoying the performance of a Veyron regularly on the road. Three seconds and you're done on public roads- that's a party trick, not a driving experience. It seems the focus must soon shift away from numbers: we are proving that we can hit numbers that are simply take away from the experience of driving on the street, rather than adding to it.
Nice to see someone else starting to see the light.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:29 AM
  #34  
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I agree with Pete. This new GT3 clearly has broad appeal and is impressive in many specifics and as an overall package. But I would NOT buy it primarily to drive on the road, IMO many other cars are more realistic and better suited for that purpose. The car will hit US speed limits in about 3 seconds in 2nd gear, and then what? How often are you really going to be at 8K rpm? Are you really going to pull over 1 G in corners on the road, with a multitude of hazards around if you screw up?

And even as a non-racing track car, I'm not sure either. Yes, it's really fast and the speed seems relatively accessible, but most serious track guys are more interested in developing skill and having fun rather than absolute speed (plus more speed means more risk).

I want to love this car and be excited about buying one, but I'm continually ambivalent about it and frustrated by it.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:39 AM
  #35  
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What becomes the comfort threshold that one would be willing to cross to spend $150K (and far more in other markets...) 70%? 80%?

IMO, it seems like if the car elicits anything less than a "I gotta have it" response, it's probably better to find an alternative that does. And while I've chosen to move forward with the new model, I totally understand the reasons why others would not want to do so.

The amazing thing is that it's a great time to be an auto enthusiast--so many different new and barely used options available to serve our wants and needs!
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:02 PM
  #36  
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Nice!

Last edited by Hoopumpers; 11-29-2013 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:05 PM
  #37  
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First, I completely realize we're all Car connoisseurs looking for the very best for each of our personal requirements. Some are Porsche diehards, some are track junkies, and some just want a great road car. Most of us aren't looking for the knee in the performance / price curve, we're buying above the knee because it's what we want.

That being said ...

We also know that a modern mini-van or cross-over beats a vintage Jag, Corvette, T-bird in handling and stoplight to stoplight, but how quickly does the technology driving today's Supercar performance become the performance available in your average Joe car?

Car and Driver, or perhaps it was Road and Track, did an article that was pretty interesting. They looked at what you could get new and used for a DD / track car for $25k or $30k (I forget the exact figure). Good article with used BMW M cars, a used Corvette C5 Z06, and a selection of new cars.

I'd like to see a slightly different comparo that pits the top Sports Cars / Super Cars from say 2000-2003 with say $35k and below sporty or even not sporty cars (e.g. FR-S/BR-Z/GT-86, Sportiest version of the Civic, a Camry, etc.) from 2010 - 2013. The trick here is the tires, you can't just do a historical magazine comparison - you need to do a test where you take a selection of 5 or 6 top sports or supercars from the past and some reasonably priced cars from today on comparable rubber and do a handling and performance comparison.

It'd be even better if you could take supercars from 15yrs ago, 10 yrs ago, 5 yrs ago and some current average cars.

While I'm not going to buy one, I think the amount of performance available today in your average family car or budget sportscar is pretty amazing.

Ryan
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:18 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by reidry View Post
While I'm not going to buy one, I think the amount of performance available today in your average family car or budget sportscar is pretty amazing.
Certainly ample for road use, but in my experience non-Porsches aren't usually durable on track, and non-GT Porsches often need some mods for serious track use too.
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #39  
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I think that the answer is clear. If you have the garage space and cash, have a wife and mistress. I'll keep my 3.6 Turbo for all of its idiosyncrasies and personality, and the GT3 for its obvious benefits.

If you don't want to split your affections, I see the new GT3 as a somewhat frustrating given its absurdly high limits. The author's 90%/80% comment is revealing.
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:43 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by frayed View Post
I think that the answer is clear. If you have the garage space and cash, have a wife and mistress. I'll keep my 3.6 Turbo for all of its idiosyncrasies and personality, and the GT3 for its obvious benefits.

If you don't want to split your affections, I see the new GT3 as a somewhat frustrating given its absurdly high limits. The author's 90%/80% comment is revealing.
I'm building a garage addition for this very reason. I have a hard time letting go of my 964 and my TT, so the plan right now is to just keep them. Justifying 3 911's to the wife was easier than I thought.
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:56 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by doubleurx View Post
I'm building a garage addition for this very reason. I have a hard time letting go of my 964 and my TT, so the plan right now is to just keep them. Justifying 3 911's to the wife was easier than I thought.
Including my trailer, shop and garage I've got five slots ... I always keep one available just in case

Ryan
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:05 PM
  #42  
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I suspect I grew up with cars in a different era, when there was no such thing as "enough" power. To complain that a car may be "too competent" to be enjoyed just seems ludicrous to me. More than that, I think it's presumptive to assume the 991 GT3 won't be entertaining at 5 or 6/10, just like our current cars. My previous Porsches all had limits far beyond what could safely be used on public roads. If a car has 30% more potential than you can use in public or 80% more, it can still be frustrating either way.

I suppose that goes to show how far automobile technology has come that we are even having this conversation. It may have merit on some level, but I still have a lot of difficulty getting my head around the concept of being concerned because a car is "too fast".
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:19 PM
  #43  
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^ Drive your regular street car at 2/3 of the speed limits and see if it's still fun.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:29 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Manifold View Post
^ Drive your regular street car at 2/3 of the speed limits and see if it's still fun.
No car on earth is fun at speed limits. Talk of the car being too capable to be a fun street car could be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I can take a CT200H 100mph around a 30mph bend and it's way too much for the street. Is a CT200H too much to handle for street duty?
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:33 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Manifold View Post
^ Drive your regular street car at 2/3 of the speed limits and see if it's still fun.
Respectfully, that's not a useful example. I've always had fun driving my street Porsches, all of which have had capabilities much higher than is legal, on the street. The 991 GT3 may have very high limits, but they are only incrementally higher, and within a few percentage points of any number of other high performance cars. A 991 GT3 will be no more difficult to enjoy on the street than any of them.

Last edited by Mike in CA; 11-06-2013 at 02:53 PM.
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