GT3 Gas Guzzler Tax?
10-27-2013, 08:09 AM
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
So, I'm expecting a Gas Guzzler tax to show up on the sticker. That really makes no difference to me. It will still be way less than 1/2 of what my governor takes 
As for it being political social engineering, I'm enough of a greenie to understand the need to reduce oil consumption. But, I think taxes for that purpose that only affect new cars are silly. I know someone who commutes 90 miles each way in a Suburban. If the US was serious about oil consumption, a specific tax on fuel sales would be more effective. But, that's exactly the kind of regressive tax that keeps people from getting re-elected (well, maybe except in Maryland).
Scott
As for it being political social engineering, I'm enough of a greenie to understand the need to reduce oil consumption. But, I think taxes for that purpose that only affect new cars are silly. I know someone who commutes 90 miles each way in a Suburban. If the US was serious about oil consumption, a specific tax on fuel sales would be more effective. But, that's exactly the kind of regressive tax that keeps people from getting re-elected (well, maybe except in Maryland).
Scott
10-27-2013, 08:51 AM
#18
Right.
I figure if you are in the market for a GT3 and want that 9,000 redline then $3 extra is like. Fock it! Right? Not to change the subject but I can't believe what kind of amazing mileage my 991 C2S is getting. Amazing. I saw 27.5 the other evening and that was averaging 75 on the freeway.
Sorry for the tangent.
I don't want to guess but I'm hoping Porsche eats it like it does on other models. I don't remember a gas guzz tax on my buddies 2010 GT3. Maybe ask the 997 guys if anyone with a 997 GT3 RS had the tax. I think the window mpg #'s are similar.
I figure if you are in the market for a GT3 and want that 9,000 redline then $3 extra is like. Fock it! Right? Not to change the subject but I can't believe what kind of amazing mileage my 991 C2S is getting. Amazing. I saw 27.5 the other evening and that was averaging 75 on the freeway.
Sorry for the tangent.
I don't want to guess but I'm hoping Porsche eats it like it does on other models. I don't remember a gas guzz tax on my buddies 2010 GT3. Maybe ask the 997 guys if anyone with a 997 GT3 RS had the tax. I think the window mpg #'s are similar.
10-27-2013, 02:56 PM
#19
Nordschleife Master
So, I'm expecting a Gas Guzzler tax to show up on the sticker. That really makes no difference to me. It will still be way less than 1/2 of what my governor takes
As for it being political social engineering, I'm enough of a greenie to understand the need to reduce oil consumption. But, I think taxes for that purpose that only affect new cars are silly. I know someone who commutes 90 miles each way in a Suburban. If the US was serious about oil consumption, a specific tax on fuel sales would be more effective. But, that's exactly the kind of regressive tax that keeps people from getting re-elected (well, maybe except in Maryland).
Scott
As for it being political social engineering, I'm enough of a greenie to understand the need to reduce oil consumption. But, I think taxes for that purpose that only affect new cars are silly. I know someone who commutes 90 miles each way in a Suburban. If the US was serious about oil consumption, a specific tax on fuel sales would be more effective. But, that's exactly the kind of regressive tax that keeps people from getting re-elected (well, maybe except in Maryland).
Scott
10-27-2013, 11:10 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Good question. I found this info on the EPA site:
The Gas Guzzler Tax for each vehicle is based on its combined city and highway fuel economy value. Manufacturers must follow U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) procedures to calculate the tax. The calculation uses a formula that weights fuel economy test results for city and highway driving cycles (the combined value is based on 55% city driving and 45% highway driving). Fuel economy values are calculated before sales begin for the model year. The total amount of the tax is determined later and is based on the total number of gas guzzler vehicles that were sold that year. It is assessed after production has ended for the model year and is paid by the vehicle manufacturer or importer.
Based on Porsche's numbers of 15city/20hwy the calculation works out to 17.25 which, according to the sliding scale the EPA uses, would result in a GG tax of $3000. However, the way I read the above, since the tax is also based on the number of vehicles sold, the tax might be less due to low volumes and perhaps no tax would be assessed the first year. A plus for early adopters? Maybe Porsche would estimate the tax to assess the buyer or, OTOH, perhaps choose to pay it tax themselves. More wishful thinking?
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420f12068.pdf
The Gas Guzzler Tax for each vehicle is based on its combined city and highway fuel economy value. Manufacturers must follow U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) procedures to calculate the tax. The calculation uses a formula that weights fuel economy test results for city and highway driving cycles (the combined value is based on 55% city driving and 45% highway driving). Fuel economy values are calculated before sales begin for the model year. The total amount of the tax is determined later and is based on the total number of gas guzzler vehicles that were sold that year. It is assessed after production has ended for the model year and is paid by the vehicle manufacturer or importer.
Based on Porsche's numbers of 15city/20hwy the calculation works out to 17.25 which, according to the sliding scale the EPA uses, would result in a GG tax of $3000. However, the way I read the above, since the tax is also based on the number of vehicles sold, the tax might be less due to low volumes and perhaps no tax would be assessed the first year. A plus for early adopters? Maybe Porsche would estimate the tax to assess the buyer or, OTOH, perhaps choose to pay it tax themselves. More wishful thinking?
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420f12068.pdf
Where's you get the 15 / 20 mpg?
I'm not sure how different the test protocol is for US city / highway vs UK urban / extra-urban, but the UK site has...
18.9 l / 100 km urban (12.44 mpg)
12.4 l / 100 km combined (18.97 mpg)
8.9 l / 100 km extra-urban (26.4 mpg)
The UK numbers make it look like the combined US number would be closer to 19 than 17.
Ryan
10-27-2013, 11:56 PM
#21
Race Director
Mike,
Where's you get the 15 / 20 mpg?
I'm not sure how different the test protocol is for US city / highway vs UK urban / extra-urban, but the UK site has...
18.9 l / 100 km urban (12.44 mpg)
12.4 l / 100 km combined (18.97 mpg)
8.9 l / 100 km extra-urban (26.4 mpg)
The UK numbers make it look like the combined US number would be closer to 19 than 17.
Ryan
Where's you get the 15 / 20 mpg?
I'm not sure how different the test protocol is for US city / highway vs UK urban / extra-urban, but the UK site has...
18.9 l / 100 km urban (12.44 mpg)
12.4 l / 100 km combined (18.97 mpg)
8.9 l / 100 km extra-urban (26.4 mpg)
The UK numbers make it look like the combined US number would be closer to 19 than 17.
Ryan
10-28-2013, 12:10 AM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Those both say (estimate) and on the GT3 splash page the fuel economy is still TBD. Not sure why Porsche hasn't published US fuel economy data yet.
Ryan
10-28-2013, 02:06 AM
#23
Race Director
Actually, Ryan, if you look at the mileage ratings for every car on the website they all say (estimate). I think the ratings shown for the GT3 are pretty recent as I've looked and haven't seen them before. Maybe they just haven't updated the splash page yet. Anyway, like I said, they do seem low.
10-28-2013, 04:04 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
15/20 are estimated numbers. My guess is that they are conservative numbers, so that actual EPA ratings are higher.
The Carrera S gets 20/27, so I have a hard time believing the GT3, which is also direct injected, would be that much lower.
Also, here's some interesting trivia: The GT3 is the only vehicle in Porsche's entire lineup to be subject to gas guzzler since the introduction of the 997 platform.
The Carrera S gets 20/27, so I have a hard time believing the GT3, which is also direct injected, would be that much lower.
Also, here's some interesting trivia: The GT3 is the only vehicle in Porsche's entire lineup to be subject to gas guzzler since the introduction of the 997 platform.
11-14-2013, 08:33 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
I received confirmation today that my February 2014 build is showing a $1000 gas guzzler tax. Also, it looks like the destination charge has been increased to $995.
11-14-2013, 09:37 PM
#28
Race Director
Hmmm.....not happy about the extra $1k, although by the MPG numbers we've seen it should/could have been more than double that. Which may mean that either Porsche is eating part of the penalty, or the mileage numbers are better than listed, or both.
11-17-2013, 02:49 AM
#29
According to a Porsche 991 GT3 Tech booklet "Direct fuel injection (DFI), fitted in a 911 GT3 model for the first time, makes a decisive contribution to the efficiency of the engine – and its power output."
What is wrong with this picture? The "decisive contribution to the efficiency" doesn't seem to be improved from the 997.1 GT3 that has 17/24 mpg on the window sticker.
Could it be that the 991 gear ratios and PDK have something to do with offsetting the improved engine stats?
Amazing as it sounds, my car didn't have a gas guzzler tax here in Californicate.
What is wrong with this picture? The "decisive contribution to the efficiency" doesn't seem to be improved from the 997.1 GT3 that has 17/24 mpg on the window sticker.
Could it be that the 991 gear ratios and PDK have something to do with offsetting the improved engine stats?
Amazing as it sounds, my car didn't have a gas guzzler tax here in Californicate.
