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991 GT3 Depreciation

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Old 10-21-2013, 10:10 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by doubleurx
Time will tell. Based on other manufacturers history, I'd guess no.
well, thats exactly the question...but lets take another recent example. Today the older 993 turbo is clearly worth more compared to the 996 turbo - which is much better - in all apsects (maybe styilng..but even then).

The 997.2 GT3 will be the last manual, last Gt1 engine etc..+ the little gremlins the 991 Gt3 now has..

But I agree with mooty, 145K will become 100..maybe 95. But all also depends how this continues here:

1) Can Porsche solve the 991 Gt3 problems - for ever (?)
2) depens also on how many units will be produced..if the 991 GT3 remains rare..good..if Porsche will flood the market..then even 95 will be too high..

just my 2 cents...
Old 10-21-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Porsche.collector
well, thats exactly the question...but lets take another recent example. Today the older 993 turbo is clearly worth more compared to the 996 turbo - which is much better - in all apsects (maybe styilng..but even then).

The 997.2 GT3 will be the last manual, last Gt1 engine etc..+ the little gremlins the 991 Gt3 now has..

But I agree with mooty, 145K will become 100..maybe 95. But all also depends how this continues here:

1) Can Porsche solve the 991 Gt3 problems - for ever (?)
2) depens also on how many units will be produced..if the 991 GT3 remains rare..good..if Porsche will flood the market..then even 95 will be too high..

just my 2 cents...

What gremlins???

What about catastrophic coolant lines (.1s and .2s) and CL failures (.2s)? not too mention some .2s with cam actuator issues, not too mention RMS on a host of .1s and some .2s.
Old 10-21-2013, 06:10 PM
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Default camshaft actuator switch

How many people had a problem with their camshaft actuator switch?

I had the engine torn down under warranty shortly after getting my 2010 GT3 and after the diagnosis was made and it was repaired, no further mechanical issues of any kind.
Old 10-21-2013, 06:21 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Porsche.collector
well, thats exactly the question...but lets take another recent example. Today the older 993 turbo is clearly worth more compared to the 996 turbo - which is much better - in all apsects (maybe styilng..but even then).

The 997.2 GT3 will be the last manual, last Gt1 engine etc..+ the little gremlins the 991 Gt3 now has..

But I agree with mooty, 145K will become 100..maybe 95. But all also depends how this continues here:

1) Can Porsche solve the 991 Gt3 problems - for ever (?)
2) depens also on how many units will be produced..if the 991 GT3 remains rare..good..if Porsche will flood the market..then even 95 will be too high..

just my 2 cents...
LOL! Andreas you are priceless. Poor old 991 GT3 eh - hasn't been delivered yet and still gets the stick!

A good 993 Turbo is worth more than a good 2011 997 Turbo today! Thats air cooled vs water cooled for you. Even a good 993 1995 Tiptronic coupe is worth more than an early 2006 997S in Europe now. So more to do with "classic status" and aircooled than manual v tipo (although manual cars do command more than tipo in 993 range - the tipo was not very good).

996.1 GT3 + 996GT3RS have IMHO almost reached the bottom of their depreciation curve now and will sit there for another 3-4 years and then start to climb again. 996.2 GT3 is not far behind. 997.1 GT3 is still falling fast along with 997.1 GT3RS. 997.2 GT3/RS are artificially high being still "current" only just!) and produced in much smaller numbers due to being launched immediately after/on the GFC 2008 for 09+ delivery. Prices are starting to soften rapidly now in our parket with 14 GT3 (all models/years) now on the market ion the last few weeks including 3 x 2010 997.2 GT3RS! Remember our market sells 12-14 new GT3 and 7-8 RS each model cycle (total country numbers!). The reason talking to my dealer friends is that many are trading in early for new GT3 and GT3RS to get best trade in value.

I also believe from a contact at PAG that currently 991 GT3 production appears to be less than 997.1 GT3 (but more than 997.2 GT3). The production window has of course shrunk.

I believe overall 911 sales are not as strong as they were and Europe is still very weak for buyers of new GT cars.
Old 10-22-2013, 02:09 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by 911dev
What gremlins???

What about catastrophic coolant lines (.1s and .2s) and CL failures (.2s)? not too mention some .2s with cam actuator issues, not too mention RMS on a host of .1s and some .2s.
Fully correct - these are the 997 gremlins..I never said the 997 was perfect or? Porsches attitude towards CL issues is unacceptable..there you go..now everybody read it..I said the 997 GT3-GT2 have flaws too..but its not the first time that I said it..
Old 10-22-2013, 02:12 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Macca
LOL! Andreas you are priceless. Poor old 991 GT3 eh - hasn't been delivered yet and still gets the stick!

A good 993 Turbo is worth more than a good 2011 997 Turbo today! Thats air cooled vs water cooled for you. Even a good 993 1995 Tiptronic coupe is worth more than an early 2006 997S in Europe now. So more to do with "classic status" and aircooled than manual v tipo (although manual cars do command more than tipo in 993 range - the tipo was not very good).

996.1 GT3 + 996GT3RS have IMHO almost reached the bottom of their depreciation curve now and will sit there for another 3-4 years and then start to climb again. 996.2 GT3 is not far behind. 997.1 GT3 is still falling fast along with 997.1 GT3RS. 997.2 GT3/RS are artificially high being still "current" only just!) and produced in much smaller numbers due to being launched immediately after/on the GFC 2008 for 09+ delivery. Prices are starting to soften rapidly now in our parket with 14 GT3 (all models/years) now on the market ion the last few weeks including 3 x 2010 997.2 GT3RS! Remember our market sells 12-14 new GT3 and 7-8 RS each model cycle (total country numbers!). The reason talking to my dealer friends is that many are trading in early for new GT3 and GT3RS to get best trade in value.

I also believe from a contact at PAG that currently 991 GT3 production appears to be less than 997.1 GT3 (but more than 997.2 GT3). The production window has of course shrunk.

I believe overall 911 sales are not as strong as they were and Europe is still very weak for buyers of new GT cars.
priceless...hmm..?..valid points..yes its air-cooled vs water cooled..but based on that logic, 996 GT3 RS should have never went up again in price..and the 4.0 is also water cooled..strange or?

all to be discussed during our NZ wine...
Old 10-22-2013, 11:31 PM
  #22  
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It all depends on future demand and supply.

For example, I will have waited 18 months from the time I grabbed the allocation spot until my GT-3 is built and delivered. Many people will not wait this long or would at least prefer not to.

Let's say that the supply remains very tight. If you had the opportunity to pick up a one model year old low mileage CPO 991 GT-3 optioned the way you wanted that stickered for $145k for $135k and forgo a delay of six months or more, I think a lot of buyers would seriously consider that proposal.
Old 10-23-2013, 03:49 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ChrisF
I disagree. I purchased my car 2 yrs old with 2K miles for $30K less than the orig owner. I've since put 16k miles and many track days in my 2 years of ownership. My guess is it's barely down since then. It's not worth $75k now. Closer to $95k but being the last of the manuals helps
From my experience the only .2 GT3s to get hit with a $30k depreciation within 24 months were ones which were a little heavily optioned. For the most part anything over $125k returned littl as far as options selected by the orig owner.
Old 10-23-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 911dev
From my experience the only .2 GT3s to get hit with a $30k depreciation within 24 months were ones which were a little heavily optioned. For the most part anything over $125k returned littl as far as options selected by the orig owner.
Very good point
Old 10-23-2013, 09:58 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by 911dev
From my experience the only .2 GT3s to get hit with a $30k depreciation within 24 months were ones which were a little heavily optioned. For the most part anything over $125k returned littl as far as options selected by the orig owner.
Agree, the bigger they are, the harder they fall...
Old 10-23-2013, 11:23 PM
  #26  
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991 GT3 with some nice options is $145k. Go beyond that you lose every dollar year 1.

996 GT3 - $60k - $65k - 25,000 miles or less - pretty much seems to be the floor

997.1 GT3 - $70-$75k (some asking much more) - 10-15k miles or less - seems to be current floor

997.1 RS - $77k - $85k (some asking much more) - 10k or less - seems to be floor

997.2 GT3 - $100 - $115k - 10k miles or less, some with 2-3k miles. Selling @ ?

997.2 RS - $115k - $150k - 10k or less miles - selling @ ? Price right - future collectable?

997 RS 4.0 - $225k - $275k and selling in days! Over priced or future super collectable?

So it seems that if the floor for the 996 is $65k and the next one $70k and then RS $80k, the .2 @ $95k, the .2 RS @ $110k - the 991 in 2-3years should be about $105k - $115k - unless all others push down more than 10% per year.

Market is good now, people are feeling good and looking to do something after a long down period. When that changes the depreciation starts back up again and everyone gets knocked down a peg.

When you drive it you won't care at all about the depreciation. I say build to your spec's, drive it everyday and put lots of miles on it, then no matter what you sell it at you got full enjoyment out of your toy! I never had any fun looking at my car in the garage!

Now you want to talk about depreciation - look at my 2012 PTT with $45k in options - built just how I wanted it, drive it everyday and have 28k miles on it, but man would it suck if I had to sell it, I figure 45% in 16 months!

PS if anyone knows of a 2010 GT3 at $75k I am a buyer as well.

Last edited by supercup; 10-24-2013 at 08:49 PM.
Old 10-24-2013, 03:58 AM
  #27  
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991 GT3 with some nice options is $145k. Go beyond that you lose every dollar year 1.
===> my guess is same

996 GT3 - $60k - $65k - 25,000 miles or less - pretty much seems to be the floor
===> no, you can get them less than that. but maybe i have found all of them. last one was bought few months ago, 25000, guards, roll bar, 4.0 ring pininon, euro seat, two sets wheels, RS wing. $53000. if any of you have clean and realistically priced 996gt3, i am a cash buyer. cars with ECU flash are rejected.

997.1 GT3 - $70-$75k (some asking much more) - 10-15k miles or less - seems to be current floor
===> i can't ind 70k. $75 is the average, this is a bargain car.

997.1 RS - $77k - $85k (some asking much more) - 10k or less - seems to be floor
===> damn, you must be better at this than i. i can't find .1RS for <$100k at 10k miles. the turtle you sold is 15 miles from me. stilled owned by my good friend who bought from you. he wont sell.... it's well cared for.


997.2 GT2 - $100 - $115k - 10k miles or less, some with 2-3k miles. Selling @ ?
==> selling at 100.

997.2 RS - $115k - $150k - 10k or less miles - selling @ ? Price right - future collectable?
==> 10k or less are selling at 140 on avg, more than 10k 135 on avg.

997 RS 4.0 - $225k - $275k and selling in days! Over priced or future super collectable?
===> trust me on this, you can't find cherry one at less than $300. the last one i bought was $260. and i had to kiss a lot of ppl's rear end and suck stuff to get it. i know of no less than six cars traded at 330+ (actual price, not asking)... strange yes.... but it is real. if you priced your 4.0 at $250, you wont be able to sell it. b/c everyone would think something is wrong with it. if u priced it at $300+, you will start to get calls. i did an live experiment with my 4.0... it was a $S60,000 lesson for me. i have REAL proof. not many ppl has already bought and sold RS4.0.

i see 991 gt3 drop 10-15k per year for 2 year-3 yr. beyond that, my crystal ball doesn't work well.


Market is good now, people are feeling good and looking to do something after a long down period. When that changes the depreciation starts back up again and everyone gets knocked down a peg.
==> i hope the mkt keeps up the good and fed pump more money out. i'll have my kids pay off the govt debt, by then i will be driving RS in heaven... or hell... the mkt is stable there. on earth, not so much.


When you drive it you won't care at all about the depreciation. I say build to your spec's, drive it everyday and put lots of miles on it, then no matter what you sell it at you got full enjoyment out of your toy! I never had any fun looking at my car in the garage!
===>on day one, take few pic of your new car, then frame it. on day 2 drive the snot out of it. my friend at jerry woods told me that. i have been trying to practice it in real life. i am dong better now.... 1000 miles last month on RS4.0, 7000 on RS3.8 in 4 months. 25000 on pepper in 12 months. 28000 miles on my 3500 dually in 12 months.


Now you want to talk about depreciation - look at my 2012 PTT with $45k in options - built just how I wanted it, drive it everyday and have 28k miles on it, but man would it suck if I had to sell it, I figure 45% in 16 months!
==> cool you are enjoying it.


PS if anyone knows of a 2010 GT3 at $75k I am a buyer as well.
===> LMAO, i will pay 76k and buy from under you

i will miss porsche at the point next weekend. i guess you wont make it either?
Old 10-24-2013, 05:07 AM
  #28  
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Mooty: your comments made me laugh....I agree with everything..except for one thing..see my comments below:

Originally Posted by mooty
991 GT3 with some nice options is $145k. Go beyond that you lose every dollar year 1.
===> my guess is same

996 GT3 - $60k - $65k - 25,000 miles or less - pretty much seems to be the floor
===> no, you can get them less than that. but maybe i have found all of them. last one was bought few months ago, 25000, guards, roll bar, 4.0 ring pininon, euro seat, two sets wheels, RS wing. $53000. if any of you have clean and realistically priced 996gt3, i am a cash buyer. cars with ECU flash are rejected.

997.1 GT3 - $70-$75k (some asking much more) - 10-15k miles or less - seems to be current floor
===> i can't ind 70k. $75 is the average, this is a bargain car.

997.1 RS - $77k - $85k (some asking much more) - 10k or less - seems to be floor
===> damn, you must be better at this than i. i can't find .1RS for <$100k at 10k miles. the turtle you sold is 15 miles from me. stilled owned by my good friend who bought from you. he wont sell.... it's well cared for.


997.2 GT2 - $100 - $115k - 10k miles or less, some with 2-3k miles. Selling @ ?
==> selling at 100.
COMMENT: Selling at 100K for 2-3k miles cars? You must be joking..100K rather for either a high mileage one...or more likely, smashed one..no perfect GT2 exists for 100k !
997.2 RS - $115k - $150k - 10k or less miles - selling @ ? Price right - future collectable?
==> 10k or less are selling at 140 on avg, more than 10k 135 on avg.

997 RS 4.0 - $225k - $275k and selling in days! Over priced or future super collectable?
===> trust me on this, you can't find cherry one at less than $300. the last one i bought was $260. and i had to kiss a lot of ppl's rear end and suck stuff to get it. i know of no less than six cars traded at 330+ (actual price, not asking)... strange yes.... but it is real. if you priced your 4.0 at $250, you wont be able to sell it. b/c everyone would think something is wrong with it. if u priced it at $300+, you will start to get calls. i did an live experiment with my 4.0... it was a $S60,000 lesson for me. i have REAL proof. not many ppl has already bought and sold RS4.0.

i see 991 gt3 drop 10-15k per year for 2 year-3 yr. beyond that, my crystal ball doesn't work well.


Market is good now, people are feeling good and looking to do something after a long down period. When that changes the depreciation starts back up again and everyone gets knocked down a peg.
==> i hope the mkt keeps up the good and fed pump more money out. i'll have my kids pay off the govt debt, by then i will be driving RS in heaven... or hell... the mkt is stable there. on earth, not so much.
COMMENT: this made my day..thats exactly why Im with you on this one..
When you drive it you won't care at all about the depreciation. I say build to your spec's, drive it everyday and put lots of miles on it, then no matter what you sell it at you got full enjoyment out of your toy! I never had any fun looking at my car in the garage!
===>on day one, take few pic of your new car, then frame it. on day 2 drive the snot out of it. my friend at jerry woods told me that. i have been trying to practice it in real life. i am dong better now.... 1000 miles last month on RS4.0, 7000 on RS3.8 in 4 months. 25000 on pepper in 12 months. 28000 miles on my 3500 dually in 12 months.


Now you want to talk about depreciation - look at my 2012 PTT with $45k in options - built just how I wanted it, drive it everyday and have 28k miles on it, but man would it suck if I had to sell it, I figure 45% in 16 months!
==> cool you are enjoying it.


PS if anyone knows of a 2010 GT3 at $75k I am a buyer as well.
===> LMAO, i will pay 76k and buy from under you

i will miss porsche at the point next weekend. i guess you wont make it either?
Old 10-24-2013, 05:10 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Nacelle
Agree, the bigger they are, the harder they fall...
yep..but in the end thats nothing new..

By the way: great picture of the 997 GT3....+ 993 turbo in midnight..
Old 10-24-2013, 07:06 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Porsche.collector
yep..but in the end thats nothing new..

By the way: great picture of the 997 GT3....+ 993 turbo in midnight..
Thank you....


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