jumper5836

I didn't think the Turbos ever came with MPSC and was under the impression that the laps were done with stock tires.

CaymanR-Racer

Sry, my bad...were RE050A... take it all back... mixed it up with the 997.2 Carrera S Supertest...


But still, the official times were 1:08,00 and 7:25 ... and the test showed a big gap between these numbers and the results of sportauto... I mean, offical times of the RS 4.0 were 7:28 and 1:08,9 ...

and the temperatures were actually quite ideal with about 15°C

Nizer

I still don't undestand why you're so upset. The difference between the 991 GT3 and RS 4.0 of a few seconds is statistically insignificant over a Ring lap and should be expected to vary from test to test.

PC Valkyrie

Sigh, let's put this in perspective. First of all these Sport Auto Supertests are done on different days (years apart, depending on what models you are comparing), so track conditions can be different when comparing different laptimes of different cars. Hopefully, it is at least the same driver (Horst von Saurma??).

When I look at the result, I see there has been consistent improvement from generation to generation of GT3 cars, so I don't "get" the disappointment some people are expressing, especially if the car they tested was not 100% healthy. Below are the Ring and Hockenheim times from previous Supertests from Sport Auto.

997 GT3: 7:48, 1:11,7
997.2 GT3: 7:40, 1:10,4
991 GT3: 7:32, 1:09,6

If you want to look at the RS cars,

997 GT3 RS: 7:48, 1:11,1
997.2 GT3 RS: 7:33, 1:09,6
997.2 GT3 RS4.0: 7:30, 1:09,5

Carrera GT: 7:32, 1:08,6

Sure, there was a lot of excitement about the 991 GT3 being potentially faster than the top of the line RS4.0, so maybe that's where the dissappointment comes from, but that was never a proper comparison, in my opinion. If anything, the results give Porsche plenty of room for the upcoming 991 GT3 RS to "beat" the 997.2 GT3 RS4.0 and justify charging a premium for the new RS car.

And yes, I agree with those saying that well driven Turbo's with comparable rubber are always faster than a GT3 on most tracks when I go to track/lapping days. Superior torque/power and AWD all help, you know. And remember what many people on this forum say: it's not all about the laptimes when you judge or enjoy your car.....most of us are not racing.......we are just "lapping" for fun.

utkinpol

this. no gt3 should be faster than a subsequent RS, no cayman should be faster than any 911.

CaymanR-Racer

Maybe u are all right...

But still, Porsche claimed that the new GT3 is faster than the old RS 4.0 ... seems not true though and thats a massive shame...

and remember... the 997 was still a car that was based on the 996... the 991 is completely new, so I thought there should be a bigger step than before... and the Carrera managed to improve by 2 Seconds over the last 7GTS and by 3 seconds over the old 7S model... So I expected, with all the hp advantage and new electronics etc that the new car would also be about 2 - 3 seconds faster than a 7GT3 on a technical course like Hockenheim (and that is exactly what porsche claims)

but the reality seems to be somewhat different... and thats what disappoints me atm....


--> Especially when compared to the "standard" 991S... it seems that if they would have put the same tires on that car, it would have driven similar laptimes!???! WTF

I mean, a C6 Z06 already lapped Hockenheim in 1:08,7 ... and the new C7 is just around the corner :S ...


Now, all the comments about "RWS, PTV and PDK" and that they "want to be the fastest" seems kind of marketing BS ... and this causes, at least for me, the disappointment ....

P_collector

couldnt agree more..but the details are striking: despite being a 991 chassis it doesnt have higher speeds at the evasion tests either..under braking neither. The 991 GT3 cant really beat a 997.2 GT3RS...this is more or less fact now. Is it faster then a 4.0? For sure not...

I think Porsche needs to "shut up" more..I dont want to sound unpolite..but there would have never been the problem if they said "its between 3.8RS and 4.0RS"..woud have fit perfectly.

Compare the situation to "manager talking to employees"..whats better : a) making them false promises about high wage increases or b) telling them, the situation is not easy, lets stay realistic.

P_collector

Hi Macca,

Dont worry..it would be nice if you would pick up the car under ED..if it would be in March-April..I could be there. Anyway, I will contact you via PM..so we dont have to spam this thread concerning our wine

PS: No matter the result, the 991 GT3 is "fast" car..thats clear..
PS 2: Remember that I said it would be below 7:30..but my source was bs-tting me ..Im sorry about this...not very reliable. I dont know why he did that..he knew the real result..

PC Valkyrie

No such "fact" exists. The only way to really know is a head to head comparison on the same day, same track, and same driver (and ideally the same tires).

In Sport Auto Supertest's hands, the only thing we can conclude is that the 991 GT3's laptimes are better than the 997.2 GT3 and in the same ballpark as the 997.2 GT3 RS and 997.2 GT3 RS 4.0 (there really insn't a big difference between those 2 RS cars anyways).

So the new "base" 991 GT3 is performing at a similar level as the previous top of the line 997.2 GT3 RS cars.......mission accomplished in my mind. Let's see what the 991 GT3 RS can do when it comes out......it's mission is clearly to beat the 997.2 RS cars definitively.

Conekilr

This is what I am curious about. Did they elaborate on why they found the car difficult to drive at the limit ?? How was the car behaving that lead to this conclusion ??

CaymanR-Racer

They say:

The car changes its behaviour: In one corner the car understeers at entry, in others it happily oversteers... The rear axle feels indifferent at the limit.
With PSM off the car oversteers suddenly when there are load changes...
The car needs a driver that knows what he is doing at the limit, as the limit is hard to feel and there is only a small line (though the limit is very high)

It even says: "If this all is due the RWS, the rear tyres or the suspension setting cannot be clarified"

Though they say: Driven up to 95% the car is very easy and save to drive and very quick....



Post scriptum: Sounds like a vette, doesnt it xD

utkinpol

nope, it sounds like R8 or GT-R car.
Electronic controls have their limit, so, instead of a gradual scale where driver could assess and control slippage in mid-corner you now got an abrupt end-of-grip scenario, at least it is what I read between the lines in the above.

Nick

Maybe this is an explanation for the delay. Porsche certainly knew of the SA test results and decided to make appropriate "adjustments" to the performance.

GrantG

deleted

Bluehinder

Car is obviously is POS, it'll never sell.