CAlexio

My dealer had offered something similar, told me the "rent to race" story also. However, with the low depreciation expected for these cars in first few yrs of production, lease seems massively more expensive than owning. Came out to something like $5k down, $25-2800/mo x 24.. Lets say $60k total in 24 months... That means that a low mileage two yr car can go from $140k new to $80k... So you see any 2011 gt3 going for $80k today?... Me neither.

Don't want to get into the depreciation expectation talk again, but I don't expect to sell this car for much less than $110 after 24 months, especially if I treat it right. Lease makes no sense on this car IMO

991RDC

Below is what I have used is the past. The lease on the GT3 does suck, but leasing directly to your business works much better for me vs. a purchase. On the 150k to 160k vehicle lease you WOULD NOT be able to deduct $275, 605, 898, 1077, 1243 over 5 years of a lease. Check this with you account. You can see below that the maximum purchase deduction. I have used this lease table on most recently on my sold 2012 GTS and will on my November build 991 GT3. Good Luck!!

2010 Lease Inclusion Table -
Passenger Automobiles




DOLLAR AMOUNTS FOR PASSENGER AUTOMOBILES
(THAT ARE NOT TRUCKS, VANS, OR ELECTRIC AUTOMOBILES)
WITH A LEASE TERM BEGINNING IN CALENDAR YEAR 2010

Fair Market Value of
Passenger Automobile


Tax Year During Lease
Over Not Over 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th & Later
16700 17000 3 7 10 11 14
17000 17500 4 8 13 15 16
17500 18000 5 10 16 19 21
18000 18500 6 13 18 23 26
18500 19000 7 15 22 26 31
19000 19500 8 17 25 30 35
19500 20000 9 19 29 34 39
20000 20500 10 21 32 38 44
20500 21000 11 23 35 42 48
21000 21500 12 26 38 45 53
21500 22000 13 28 41 50 57
22000 23000 14 31 46 56 63
23000 24000 16 36 52 63 73
24000 25000 18 40 59 71 81
25000 26000 20 44 66 78 90
26000 27000 22 49 71 86 100
27000 28000 24 53 78 94 108
28000 29000 26 57 85 101 118
29000 30000 28 61 92 109 126
30000 31000 30 66 97 117 135
31000 32000 32 70 104 125 144
32000 33000 34 74 111 132 153
33000 34000 36 79 117 140 161
34000 35000 38 83 123 148 171
35000 36000 40 87 130 156 179
36000 37000 42 92 136 163 188
37000 38000 44 96 143 170 198
38000 39000 46 100 149 179 206
39000 40000 48 105 155 186 215
40000 41000 50 109 162 194 224
41000 42000 52 113 169 201 233
42000 43000 54 118 174 210 241
43000 44000 56 122 181 217 251
44000 45000 58 126 188 225 259
45000 46000 60 131 194 232 269
46000 47000 61 135 201 240 277
47000 48000 63 140 207 248 286
48000 49000 65 144 213 256 295
49000 50000 67 148 220 263 304
50000 51000 69 153 226 271 313
51000 52000 71 157 232 279 322
52000 53000 73 161 239 287 331
53000 54000 75 166 245 294 340
54000 55000 77 170 252 302 348
55000 56000 79 174 258 310 358
56000 57000 81 178 265 318 366
57000 58000 83 183 271 325 375
58000 59000 85 187 278 333 384
59000 60000 87 191 284 341 393
60000 62000 90 198 294 352 406
62000 64000 94 207 306 368 424
64000 66000 98 215 320 382 443
66000 68000 102 224 332 398 460
68000 70000 106 232 346 413 478
70000 72000 110 241 358 429 496
72000 74000 114 250 371 444 513
74000 76000 118 258 384 460 531
76000 78000 122 267 396 476 549
78000 80000 126 276 409 491 566
80000 85000 132 291 432 518 598
85000 90000 142 313 464 556 643
90000 95000 152 334 497 594 687
95000 100000 162 356 528 634 731
100000 110000 177 388 577 691 798
110000 120000 196 432 641 768 887
120000 130000 216 475 705 846 976
130000 140000 236 518 770 922 1065
140000 150000 256 561 834 1000 1154
150000 160000 275 605 898 1077 1243
160000 170000 295 648 963 1153 1333
170000 180000 315 691 1027 1231 1421
180000 190000 334 735 1091 1308 1510
190000 200000 354 778 1155 1386 1599
200000 210000 374 821 1220 1462 1688
210000 220000 393 865 1284 1539 1777
220000 230000 413 908 1348 1617 1866
230000 240000 433 951 1413 1693 1956
240000 999999 453 995 1476 1771 2044



If you purchase a car you depreciate the cost as follows:

Tax Year Amount
1st Tax Year $11,160
2nd Tax Year $5,100
3rd Tax Year $3,050
Each Succeeding Year $1,875

This what you write off each year no matter if the car costs $15,000 or $150,000. If you lease you deduct the lease payment that you pay in the year less an amount from what the IRS calls a lease inclusion table

Value of Vehicle Year of Lease
100,000 110,000 52 115 170 203 235
110,000 120,000 58 127 189 227 262

As you can see the amount for a $100,000 FMV vehicle lease you would not be able to deduct $52, 115, 170, 203, 235 over 5 years of a lease.



There is a capital lease where ownership at the end of the lease reverts to you for a bargain purchase of usually $1. If you have a capital lease you treat the lease as a purchase. I have not seen a capital lease with cars, its usually with equipment.

philooo

now that the gt3 are ...not so hot... pun intended.
Any better lease rates ? I figured buyers must be scares these days. ?

sqweak

Current troubles aside, practically every available GT3 is sold. Porsche has no need to incentivize leases on a car they don't have available to sell.

There have been 2 documented problems out of ~750 cars. It's a PR mess, but this is not a ford pinto situation. Worst case, and we all hope it doesn't come to this, there may be some additional depreciation on affected cars but I can't imagine a world in which Porsche suddenly can't sell such a well reviewed car.

mikemiaos

leasing is stupid on GT3. The real residual value is very high, with standard lease, you will probably pay more than 2x than buy and trade-in

philooo

I assume they know that if you lease you will write it off from your business, so they are pushing it as far as they can.

If you can write it of, then uncle sam is paying 45% (if you are in high bracket) of your monthly payment, it start to make sense.

@991RDC, can you explain a bit more your thinking, I tried to read your post 5 times, but still could not really understand these numbers.

orthojoe

One more thing to consider: Just because you lease, the car does not have to be surrendered to the dealer at the end of the lease. If the value of the car is higher than the residual, you can trade or sell it privately to recoup some of the equity you put into the car.

DerStig

Reviving an old thread...

Something is just not adding up here, if GT3 is as rare and valuable as everyone (including Porsche) says it is (and I also agree that it is), how can it have such terrible residuals? Forget the money factor, a lease residual shows how much a manufacturer have faith in the resale of any given car. 53% residual is worse than any BMW I have ever leased. Heck, my M5 is probably the WORST car in terms of resale and even that has a 61% residual for 3 years and 10,000 miles.

Does it make a good business case to do what Porsche is doing? Isn't it better to have residuals that truly reflect the valuation of this car and have a much stronger used car market? Porsche will benefit from this the most as all lease turn ins will result in a particular car being sold by a dealer second time for more profit.

And I think this (terrible lease programs) is a general thing with Porsche. There was a Panamera in the showroom of a dealership the other day, the deal was $1950/month (EXCLUDING taxes) and 5,000 miles/year for a 135k car. My M5 is 121k and I pay (1020/month INCLUDING taxes for a 10k/year lease for 3 years).

I guess question is, why do lease programs suck so much? A car like GT3 which we all know holds its value so well should qualify for better lease programs.

Bandit201

The money factors kill the idea of leasing as most are above the .00300 range. Where you can get an S at .00200 (still not fantastic). If anyone got a GT3 at PFS buy rate. They scored.

orthojoe

My guess as to the reason for low residuals is:

1) higher chance of damage with GT3 which would diminish value on resale since the cars are driven hard. If a car is a wreck and repaired, the dealer still has to take the car back at the end of the lease
2). More of these cars are tracked, which would diminish value compared to most garage queens

Bandit201

Very good point Orthojoe. And is factual.

DerStig

Then why dont we see GT3s costing half of what they did in 3 years? The 2013s I see in the used market even as high as 10k miles go for ridiculously high prices. If the current used market is to be taken as a source, then the two year residual should be over 85-90%.

It sucks because if they had good lease programs they would make the car accessible to more people financially and I think as Porsche they would make more money in the end. Its win win situation.

I dont think this is due to tracking though because I havent seen a Porsche with a normal lease program (normal being something comparable to bmw, merc, or audi). See my panamera example, they have terrible programs.

ATXGT3

GT3 is NOT a vehicle to lease--period. Pay cash and own it.

orthojoe

It's about taking on the 'risk'. An undamaged GT3 or garage queen GT3 fetches a premium and low depreciation. Porsche does this to protect themself from the higher risk of tracked and damaged cars with these specific cars, just in case. Just my guess

Has anybody heard of residuals set at 85%-90%? You're dreaming if you think Porsche will do that.

Bandit201

PFS is very conservative with all models. You are right DerStig Porsche could make some changes to the residuals, money factors, etc. But they are don't have any reason to change. Not enough cars are made.