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991 GT3 RS vs. 458 Speciale

 
Old 10-11-2013, 01:57 AM
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Kain
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Default 991 GT3 RS vs. 458 Speciale

Based on what we know about both cars (well the 458 Speciale is now official while we don't know much about the GT3 RS other than the fact that it will improve on the "standard" GT3), which car do you think will be more "hardcore?" Do you think the 991 GT3 RS will be quicker around most tracks than the 458 Speciale?

By the way, why can't I make a poll? Not enough posts yet?
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:07 AM
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On which one is more hardcore: that depends on your definition, I guess. Both are dual-clutched, so relatively easy to drive. The Speciale probably has less sound insulation than the RS, which most likely will have carpets and that stuff. We don't know yet how different the RS engine will be as compared to the normal GT3, so that's difficult to say. It's claimed to become a lot more hardcore, as per AP though.

Ferrari managed to reduce the 458's weight, which wasn't high to start with, by approximately 100 kg with the Speciale. That means it'll probably be a least 100 kg lighter than the GT3 RS. And will have more than 100 extra horses. But the recent test between the GT3 and 12C showed that doesn't say it all.

And the end of the day, it will be all down to individual preference. Personally, I don't care about lap-times, apart from the fact that they give an indication in the car's ability. I prefer to spend a day driving as fast as possible through the empty Fujeirah mountains over circling around Yas Marina (boring) or the Autodrome (better). Also because the likelihood, even in Dubai, that when you're on the track, you'll bump into that other car, with a similarly skilled driver who also has the ***** or skills to properly go for it, approaches zero. So it ends up to be all bragging rights. And I don't care about those.

The thing that truly matters to me is (the size of) my smile on my face when driving the car. Caused by the driver involvement. The purity. The handling. The sound. The agility. And yes, the speed, but to a lesser extent. That's why the 1M is still in my garage. And the 0-100 in 2.7 seconds GT-R isn't.

Just my 2 cents... realizing that everybody's got a different mix of defining elements that they are looking for in a car.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:26 AM
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+1
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:27 AM
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Kain
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Thanks for the response!

I see that you have a 991 GT3 and a 458 Speciale on order. I would love to get your impressions on both cars once you have had some time with them.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:29 AM
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based on the 997.2 RS and 430 Scud, i would say 458 S.
Frankly, i dont think P has gone far enough to lower weight.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:32 PM
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Kain
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Quick question. Can you "abuse" a Ferrari like a Porsche? I have this feeling that a Porsche can take more abuse (actually more like driving it hard) than a Ferrari. Is a Ferrari somewhat delicate?
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:17 AM
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In the past the Ferrari would win on paper, and the p car would rule the emotion and senses.

Now- I have a feeling they're both Much better on paper then they are to drive. Hope to proven wrong.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:50 PM
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Hi Kain - nice to see another UAE member.

I agree with Tom. Both of the cars you mentioned will be superb and it all comes down to your preference and how big your wallet is..... The 458S will be a fair bit more than the RS I suspect.

IF, the new RS is more hard core and extreme as per what Mr AP is saying, then I will be excited..... IF though.....

In terms of abuse, I have not owned a F car but my Gen 2 RS has 31k on it and I use it daily and LOVE it. For me it's like a fine wine - getting better with age. The more I drive it, the more I appreciate it and it's flippin fantastic . So I would think with advanced technology the next version will get better...... I mean the centre lock and coolant issues surely will at the very least.....
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Old 10-12-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by markow View Post
+1
+2
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Old 10-12-2013, 03:48 PM
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I don't need them but I love how they look and they feel great. Best brakes in the world.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:26 PM
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Kain,

Perception-wise, sure there's a difference. Just basic stereotyping the typical German pŘnktlichkeit vs. Italian flamboyance in engineering and design could contribute to that. Combine that with the fact that in the not-so-distant past, F-cars weren't reliable at all, with or without abuse, and a mindset and or prejudice is created.

However, in these debates, I try to look at it objectively. Hence look at data. And that's where it becomes challenging. I doubt you'll ever find reliable, objective, truly comparable, information on how these cars (or normal 991s vs. 458s, for that matter) can handle their abuse and thus how many defects this abuse will cause. Porsches might have more defects that are public knowledge (surely in absolute numbers due to higher sales numbers, but maybe even per car), but we all know that P-cars generally cover higher mileages. And if you would manage to find more detailed numbers on defects per mile or kilometer, I'm sure somebody will say that Porsches will be driven harder and abused more. Which might be true too.

What I am trying to say is that I am convinced that you will never find reliable, comparable, data to make an objective, data-driven, apple-to-apple comparison. Hence you're bound to listen to individual experiences or hear-say, which makes it a slippery slope to me.

I know that's not an answer to your question, but I am personally hesitant to believe any claim, arguing either way, if there is little substance (data) behind it...
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kain View Post
Quick question. Can you "abuse" a Ferrari like a Porsche? I have this feeling that a Porsche can take more abuse (actually more like driving it hard) than a Ferrari. Is a Ferrari somewhat delicate?
Modern ferraris (430 & later) are much more reliable and can take abuse though the majority of owners choose not to abuse them. The 458 in particular has a very good record, if you drive it enough. It is just as reliable as a porsche. But if you let it sit too long it will not start at some point.

My question is what are the resale prospects of a GT3 in the Dubai market? where the vast majority either prefer the carrera or if looking for a higher 911-the turbo is the choice. I hardly ever see a GT3 on sale on dubizzle. Are there enough hardcore drivers to snap one up, come resale time?
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:07 PM
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The ferrari will look more "exotic" and priced as such.

Both will be entertaining to see back to back compario.

Ferrari price tag is out of my league and so is the image that goes with one.

Id be in the 991RS.
It will do everything as good or better then ferrari and that is what counts in these performance machines. Performance.
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:58 AM
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A cute little video with the inimitable Sabine Schmidt in a gt3 RS vs a 458. She says the kW suspension is part of the reason it handles so well... Subtle shilling for a product or real??

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Old 10-13-2013, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by aamersa View Post
My question is what are the resale prospects of a GT3 in the Dubai market? where the vast majority either prefer the carrera or if looking for a higher 911-the turbo is the choice. I hardly ever see a GT3 on sale on dubizzle. Are there enough hardcore drivers to snap one up, come resale time?
The reason you don't see a lot of GT3s on sale here is because their owners generally don't part with them so easily or quickly. It's a different crowd. With the risk of over-simplification: Carrera or Turbo owner buy theirs fully specced, but sell it and buy another one as soon as a face-lifted version arrives. Most GT3 owners couldn't care less about a slightly different front fascia or other rear lights, hence as less persuaded to rotate their cars quickly. And less GT3 get sold into the market to start with.

To answer your last question: IMHO, absolutely!
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