Not bad...
09-30-2013, 07:43 AM
#32
Drifting
Thread Starter
Since the 991 GT3 is PDK-only and arguably isn't as pure a track car as the 997 GT3, I'm indeed cross-shopping it with the M3/M4. My guess is that the M3/M4 will be plenty fast on the track, the weight isn't too much more than the GT3, it has a real back seat and trunk, and will cost roughly half of the GT3. Key question for me is whether the M3/M4 will truly stand up to serious track use, but that applies to the GT3 also.
09-30-2013, 07:35 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
09-30-2013, 07:39 PM
#34
Actually, it would be a 32% increase...
But I agree with you--I think it may reach into the mid to high $80s and even $90...but only if you get it with DCT, the optional carbon ceramics, etc., etc.
My feeling is that M is going the way of AMG--and will offer a Competition Package (like on the M5) pretty early on for the M3/4. This is like AMG's Performance Package--different tuning, etc. for more power, and charge $5-8K for it (and the accompanying factory warranty).
But I agree with you--I think it may reach into the mid to high $80s and even $90...but only if you get it with DCT, the optional carbon ceramics, etc., etc.
My feeling is that M is going the way of AMG--and will offer a Competition Package (like on the M5) pretty early on for the M3/4. This is like AMG's Performance Package--different tuning, etc. for more power, and charge $5-8K for it (and the accompanying factory warranty).
09-30-2013, 08:01 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
09-30-2013, 09:52 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
09-30-2013, 11:00 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Actually, it would be a 32% increase...
But I agree with you--I think it may reach into the mid to high $80s and even $90...but only if you get it with DCT, the optional carbon ceramics, etc., etc.
My feeling is that M is going the way of AMG--and will offer a Competition Package (like on the M5) pretty early on for the M3/4. This is like AMG's Performance Package--different tuning, etc. for more power, and charge $5-8K for it (and the accompanying factory warranty).
But I agree with you--I think it may reach into the mid to high $80s and even $90...but only if you get it with DCT, the optional carbon ceramics, etc., etc.
My feeling is that M is going the way of AMG--and will offer a Competition Package (like on the M5) pretty early on for the M3/4. This is like AMG's Performance Package--different tuning, etc. for more power, and charge $5-8K for it (and the accompanying factory warranty).
09-30-2013, 11:33 PM
#39
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So 85k or 90k for this rig. So a lot cheaper than a new GT3 to be sure. But such totally different cars after owning a string of M3s and GT3s.
I guess if you are on a budget, need the utility, are willing to trust a new turbo motor from BMW on track (can you say heat soak?) and think that BMW for the first time ever will have built a reasonably proper braking system for the track, then go for it.
But in my experience, just like with Cayman owners, brakes, cooling, software and perhaps suspension will be required to get it to track duty. And by the time you do those things you will seriously f up its qualities on street based on my experience with street cars partially converted for track usage.
But at least you can get a MT.
I guess if you are on a budget, need the utility, are willing to trust a new turbo motor from BMW on track (can you say heat soak?) and think that BMW for the first time ever will have built a reasonably proper braking system for the track, then go for it.
But in my experience, just like with Cayman owners, brakes, cooling, software and perhaps suspension will be required to get it to track duty. And by the time you do those things you will seriously f up its qualities on street based on my experience with street cars partially converted for track usage.
But at least you can get a MT.
09-30-2013, 11:43 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Everything about this car sounds great (manual, lighter, etc.), except for the engine. Every 1M coupe vs. E92 M3 comparison was a preview of what you can expect. Fast as hell, but soul-less as far as the engine is concerned. A turbo is a turbo. Even BMW's wizards can't change that. How power is delivered is also part of the equation, and the power charts show you what to expect.
F80/3 chassis + S65 = awesome
Maybe BMW is saving the M3 coupe badge for something special with NA power. That's my pipe dream.
F80/3 chassis + S65 = awesome
Maybe BMW is saving the M3 coupe badge for something special with NA power. That's my pipe dream.
09-30-2013, 11:57 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Everything about this car sounds great (manual, lighter, etc.), except for the engine. Every 1M coupe vs. E92 M3 comparison was a preview of what you can expect. Fast as hell, but soul-less as far as the engine is concerned. A turbo is a turbo. Even BMW's wizards can't change that. How power is delivered is also part of the equation, and the power charts show you what to expect.
F80/3 chassis + S65 = awesome
Maybe BMW is saving the M3 coupe badge for something special with NA power. That's my pipe dream.
F80/3 chassis + S65 = awesome
Maybe BMW is saving the M3 coupe badge for something special with NA power. That's my pipe dream.
As for hard, 30 minute track sessions, heat soak will definitely be an issue.
10-01-2013, 12:16 AM
#42
10-01-2013, 01:32 AM
#44
Race Director
regarding heatsoak... if you read the specs they specifically mention track endurance... they have a special type of additional intercooler above the engine to compress cold air, as well as coolers to cool down the turbos. from the initial literature, it looks like they've also been sensitive to past criticism of the brakes fading... not sure where I found the whole piece, but it's worth pouring over the details... I think BMW are serious about the m4 being a serious car. oh, and did I mention the solid attachment of the rear end... no bushings?... that's SERIOUS ;-D
if I can't get the gt3 into my garage because of ground clearance.. I'll default to a well-optioned M4. I would cry of course... but I can't park a gt3 in the street can I?
if I can't get the gt3 into my garage because of ground clearance.. I'll default to a well-optioned M4. I would cry of course... but I can't park a gt3 in the street can I?
10-01-2013, 03:02 AM
#45
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regarding heatsoak... if you read the specs they specifically mention track endurance... they have a special type of additional intercooler above the engine to compress cold air, as well as coolers to cool down the turbos. from the initial literature, it looks like they've also been sensitive to past criticism of the brakes fading... not sure where I found the whole piece, but it's worth pouring over the details... I think BMW are serious about the m4 being a serious car. oh, and did I mention the solid attachment of the rear end... no bushings?... that's SERIOUS ;-D
if I can't get the gt3 into my garage because of ground clearance.. I'll default to a well-optioned M4. I would cry of course... but I can't park a gt3 in the street can I?
if I can't get the gt3 into my garage because of ground clearance.. I'll default to a well-optioned M4. I would cry of course... but I can't park a gt3 in the street can I?
I am also anxious about how GT3 will make it up my crazy driveway here in Berkeley Hills. If it does not, I'll have a very interesting conversation with the owner of the house I rent, but I am optimistic about my negotiating skills.